Geofa

So nice after pointing this funky rudder behavior two years ago that it is finally being taken seriously.Glad Andy has the power to be listened to instead of being labelled an xplane hater/ fsxer. Truth although it can take time usually triumphs... I hope the funky scenery in my area of the world will finally also be addressed-it needs similar attention. All good-let's make this sim the best!

Excellent stuff. The last number 2 is something I have been observing for quite a while when I said rudder input needs work. Perhaps finally sometime in the future a proper Chandelle will be able to be simulated! Cheers to progress!

The argument never was about if some aircraft have torque roll ( I am sure the GeeBee did) but about aircraft that do not and the exaggerated effect in xplane. The part that seems to be missed is this effect vanished about 6 months ago in one of the betas. All my Carenado aircraft perform fairly rw like-before this they were showing exaggerated and unrealistic uncommanded continual roll effects that made the sim totally unusable for me. Now at least fm wise I find things accurate enough to be able to use the sim without negative training occurring. The argument above is like saying it rains every day in San Diego, taking a video on the few days it does, and then using it to prove that point. sure it rains in San Diego-though very seldom, and when it does it is very light. There is on a very rare occasion a downpour .

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Nothing better in life than landing on a grass strip, seeing the blowing grass and opening the window and taking in the smell. For realism- maybe some dangerous gopher holes, muddy wet sections ( we do train soft field takeoffs/ landings for a reasons) and maybe hazardous boulders too, or even a hang glider guy waving right when you cross the trees on the landing threshold where you were planning to land. Atmosphere = reality and some smiles on a boring computer monitor.

Yes-I bought that right when xplane 10 came out as I was at the time flying a diamond da 40 with a g1000. Trouble is it really is set up for a multi monitor approach which I don't have, and I was not able to find a realistic da 40 so I didn't use it much. Again, ability to customize a sim for what the end user need-be it game, or rw trainer is the key to market share. I hope more and more comes out for xplane that allows this. I should add I was perfectly happy with Reality xp in 32 bit ( other than not being able to put it in a panel) but 32 bit since about a year ago is unstable and crashes almost immediately on my machine.

Re:gps It is not about colorful or lazy. For a rw pilot using a sim for training it is about getting simulated aircraft/instruments as close to one uses rw to stay proficient on them-and it isn't confined only to gps. Only when this happens does a sim become a useful trainer. Although I personally never have come across a kln90b I did fly with a kln 94 for 10 years-which is also ancient at the time. There was never a sim version of it for any sim ( elite was going to have one but lawsuits stopped it). I tried using the kln90 sim version at the time-but it just was not useful enough because of the large difference of features, user input. I did fly a lot of planes with garmin 430's and despite the fact that they have now gone " ancient" are found on a large majority of aircraft now-at least in the US. For someone who wants to " game" a detail like this may not be important- but for someone who wants to "train" hugely important. Why I have even invested in 430 hardware for the sim. How beautiful to be able to learn the intricacies of your machine on the ground when you have time to pause and experiment. A heck of a lot of pilots only know how to direct to on their boxes because of a lack of this. I still remember flying Vfr in complex airspace when my pilot friend accidentally hit the declutter button on the Garmin-losing all airspace info on the screen and went into a panic as he didn't know how to get it back. Luckily my Reality xp sim experience allowed me to simply push the button and get it back. I look greatly forward to the mentioned new and improved gps coming, or any add in that will fill this need. I suspect for flight schools who also have similar hardware/ training needs this is also paramount and why someone has been hired to do so. It looks like there is a new one relacing the reality xp for the FSX world-I look eagerly for the same to manifest here.

I don't think I've ever done a single takeoff in all weather conditions where maintaing a precise ground track with a runway centerline doesn't require a series of quick adjustments including using the yoke ( and rudder) as shown in the video.

I bought it when xplane 10 first came out. I was flying a da-40 and wanted to get better at working a g1000. If I recall it was really meant for multi monitors which I did not have-hardware too would be most helpful. A good product-I just really did not have the right hardware.

My beef is not with the fact that this aircraft may need roll trim, but of videos being posted which show pilots making obvious small wind corrections (called crabbing) and justifying this as showing the aircraft tendency to roll.

The right deflection is a quick correction to correct for a wind from the right to keep the aircraft on the runway centerline - the hallmark of a commercial pilot and instinctive after many hours... I have I mentioned this any times before on the "videos" but it seems that myths are more important... Why I don't post here much anymore...

Murmur-absolutely right. FSX on the pitch axis is way to unstable and no sim has trimming down right yet-. Itused to drive me crazy-of course a stellar aircraft on FSX and xplane can minimize this. Jcomm-you are right-I am getting totally confused. I thought our discission about the " torque bug" . Now it seems to be about " unbalanced " or a mis rigged airplane or the engine itself producing a rolling moment. Of an unbalanced,mis rigged, poor fuel management would require adjustments from the pilot. However pilots take great care so that isn't necessary-at least good ones do. For example-on the rare occasion I took 5 adults in my Baron after doing w/b I put quite a few container of water in the nose. If I had a extremely heavy passenger in one seat in the back I would put suitcase/ weight on the other side. A mis rigged aircraft is another-which Larry took care of and with my 40 year old bonanza was taken care of with a a single one time adjustment to the aileron trim and rudder trim. Never touched it again. By the way on the Debonair, even though it had a high performance engine-even rudder input was pretty minimal -as it had a rudder aileron connect.

Also depends on the aircraft. My friend with the arrow with anything but bad turbulence would let go of the yoke for minutes at a time. It used to drive me crazy because his altitude would be moving up and down very slowly +-100 ft. And the heading like wise a few degrees either direction but it always did come back to the " average by itself-thanks to that Hershey Bar wing. Larry-only tiring cause you live in the mtns with all those disturbing air currents!

.and of course the dry wing would cause the wing to dip, then would be corrected by dihedral with Dutch rolls repeating itself and making especially your back passengers vomit. No decent pilot would do so, and I had a front seat passenger vomit once from motion sickness-not a pretty sight and something I would want to repeat....

1) it would be impossible to do what you said above be because a large number of GA aircraft do not have aileron trim-it is not needed. The C172's that I flew did not not have aileron trim. My bonanza did but I only touched it once-never the Baron. Why would I only touch it once and the day I bought the plane?. I bet Larry knows..... I have seen pilots use rudder trim on takeoffs to ease the right rudder pressure needed 2) a plane does not continually roll to the left-regardless of the number of passengers.

I find this statement puzzling. There are 4 forces which cause an aircraft to yaw to the left (pfactor, torque,Gyroscopic precision, and spiraling slipstream-not just the last) that cause an aircraft to yaw to the left and is compensated for by rudder-not aileron. Since you introduced yourself above I will do the same. 25 years of flying, 1200 hours, commercial/multi/instrument/ground instructor(I completed cfi traing but for a number of reasons did not bother with the check ride). I have time in almost all common Ga aircraft, but mostly in Bonanzas/Baron's There is no continual left roll in any of these aircraft and why most of them do not have aileron trim. Contrary to much of the aerodynamic talk of engine canting above I believe there is a simpler explanation-if a wing drops dihedral takes control and thru a gentle number of Dutch rolls specified by the FAA (which xplane flunks) the plane comes back to its level state. Pipers are notoriously stable this way-my friend with an Arrow used to brag he did not need an autopilot and he was right-it was unbelievably stable. There are great things the blade element approach does-Dutch rolls from disturbing air, ground effect, the general landing process etc. I don't understand why it is so hard to admit there are areas that it doesn't do so well and hope for fixes in a never ending goal to have a better flight sim. I saw you remarked above once leaving the ground is when one experiences this effect ( at least roll which should read yaw). Actually an old salt taught me a valuable trick. He had a client who had a narrow grass strip and when back taxiing for anther takeoff would turn the plane to the right, run out of runway, have to shut the engine down and push the plane back. This old salt being a stickler for the 4 negative forces suggested he turn the plane to the left the next time where he was able to now by using the left turning forces turn the plane around without getting out. The pilot was adtonished but this old salt drummed into me that most pilots have little understanding of the 4 negative forces and how to use them to your advantage.Wonder if xplane does this-I have never tried but that would be a bonus! ...and this old salt when training a new pilot would not allow him to touch the yoke on takeoffs-this to encourage proper rudder usage. Think that would be a recipe for disaster in xplane....

The aircraft yaws to the left and is this is compensated for by use of rudder-not aileron.

Absolutely stunning!

Lol-jc. Unfortunately I don't own a company and I have for a variety of reasons been on a 1.5 year hiatus from rw flying...which is why I have increased urgency for a sim...any sim...to recreate the experience as well as possible.....

A search can easily answer your question.....

No-it just reflects reality of the worldwide user base-that is not bias. Wiki can be uncomfortable sometimes however as anything basically goes there as I am sure you know. The mods moderate all of the forums-a quick search of many, many of the topics here that turned south reflect that-and it is such a daunting daily hours thankless long job that no-they on top of doing moderation don't have time to do press releases for those who don't-nor should they.

So you are saying there has been in your words " chaos" for developers and end users for the last two years ( end users who IMHO should count the more important of the two) but now it is of paramount importance that Laminar not be "reckless" because they don't want to have an unstable platform? Sounds like an oxymoron to me

Exactly Gregg-from having "worked" here a pr release has to be sent to the appropriate person. Scotch egg-I heavily take exception to the wiki ms statement. I came here in the 1990's-did not use msfs at all and found this more than an appropriate home for my sims at the time-pro pilot, flight unlimited and the fly series. Many of avsim's users "focus" on msfs but I think the large numbers of forums here that are not msfs related kinda negate that statement completely. The "numbers" in the forums here simply reflect a worldwide accuracy of the numbers using each sim. That is less a "focus" and more a reflection of reality.

From my 33 years of flight simming most developers do follow forums, do pick up ideas, and do listen and improve...most.... The 3d mesh system was adapted by MS after looking at the praise pro pilot picked up(though the sim was hugely maligned by the fs crowd at the time). Real weather downloads and their possibility were urged by many in the late 90's and the next version of fs had this feature. I know for a fact the ms people though at the time did not communicate thru the forums followed them avidly. A responsive company listens to their customers and adapts. Forums are a wonderful vehicle for customers to share their experiences good or bad. If I ran a company I'd have 1 employee reading all forums ( not just avsim) and reporting on a weekly basis, and listening and adapting where possible..period.

"Hardly a real road block for all developers, especially since many developers complained about to many and fast updates. Instead I think that after the bumpy ride to 64bit there won't be any fundamental updates for the flight model or the plug-in systems till XP 11" ..and how did that " bumpy ride" effect consumers who were told xplane 10 was a whole new animal on its release and there would be no more bumpies? Took almost 2 years for my initial purchases made on faith to be made good-or somewhat good. Sad to hear there won't be any fundamental updates for the flight model-that one speaks for itself.