Chris from Angle of Attack

Hey all, 

I'm glad the majority of you are finding the training useful. Producing a course of that size at the time was very difficult to do. Both our 737 and 777 courses are quite in depth and offer a one-stop-shop for most of the knowledge you'll need flying the aircraft. 

Of course, you can go out and try and get what you want from Youtube. There is some pretty good stuff out there- even I admit it. That said, it's not all-in-one place, and not all of it is professionally produced. In other words, to be able to find everything is one spot, and not have to keep searching around, is one of the highest values of these packages. 

Also, you're learning from actual pilots when you're consuming our content- not flight simmers who got their knowledge from someone else. Too often I've found that Youtubers are good at some things, but leave me baffled at others. 

BTW, Jason Sokoloff of AOA has been continually producing content for the 737 for a few years now. 737 LineWork has over 55 episodes now, packed full over very, very advanced techniques. We're talking hundreds of hours of additional content here. If you haven't checked it out, it's worth doing so! He regularly releases updates to that course. 

If you guys have an additional questions, feel free to reach out to me directly at team@flyaoamedia.com and I'd like to answer any questions you may have. 

We know that with some effort and focus, using our courses can transform the way you fly simulated airliners. 

Throttle On!

You won't find that in Chris' stuff.

Thanks a million, man! I really appreciate that. 

After watching a few of your AOA lesson preview videos of YouTube, I must say I am very impressed at the professionalism of the lessons.

Big thanks! Really hope you get to enjoy that beautiful bird. Don't forget, you can make it less daunting for yourself by getting our Aviator90 series. 

Hi,

 

I didn't get any email myself. Wow, I did not see this coming. Well, I download and burn all video material so they can be viewed on my 70" 3D TV. Looks like I just purchased my last AoA product.

 

AoA wants to change the rules, you do it for new customers, you don't screw your existing customers.

Michael, you can contact support. You'll be taken care of. Doesn't help to say it here when we're really the people that can help you. 

We do appreciate your business, and we always recognize your name when it comes up. 

Hi

 

Thank you! We've put a lot of money, time and effort into this website. We've been working on it since may.

 

Hi Chris

 

Is there a possibility at some point in the future you would provide a DVD/Blu Ray version of this? I really enjoyed the 747 and the 767 series.. I never got into the 737. But I don't have the access to internet (with reasonable bandwidth) except  during weekends.. and I'd rather do some simming when a I get a chance during the weekends.   Since I travel so much for work.. would love to  watch it on my laptop while travelling.

We don't do had products. It's a logistical nightmare, and just doesn't work out that great. Our company is a bit too small to be doing that. The demand for it just isn't as high as you'd think, so we put our effort into things online. 

AOA won't be the first or last company to cut of downloads after paying for them. How many companies in the FSX world expect you to pay again to download a previously purchased product (I remember a discussion on here a few weeks ago about this). Plus, you still have access to the videos, and I'm sure if you ask them for an extension to download all your files, they'll allow it.

Yes. It's honestly a lot of getting riled up for nothing, if you ask me. 

Not a customer of theirs, but with many online services like this, they are taking the p*** and price gouging customers.

 

I've found with several unrelated services that I had looked at using over the last couple of years (but thankfully didn't!), they charged one price, then later on changed their ToS and made it far more expensive *even for exisitng customers* in part because people failed to correctly read (if they bothered at all) the contract they were agreeing to at the time they purchased.

 

I'm one of those "sad" people who read EULAs etc.., but because I do, I don't get stung by these carefully worded terms that basically say the contract isn't worth the paper it isn't written on. Words like "we reserve the right change these terms and conditions at any time and without prior notificiation to you" basically gives that company carte blanche to do what the hell they like.

 

CAVEAT EMPTOR!

 

Best regards,

Robin.

Yeah, whatever. You're making this into a much bigger deal than it is. Had you read what I wrote earlier about our policies and why, you'd see that we're not pulling moves like AT&T to increase our margins. This is something we HAVE to do to survive. 

It's fun to come and rail on FS Companies, as for some reason we seem big and bad. I can tell you that most FS Companies aren't big, or bad, and the small things matter. This isn't something we've wanted to do. It's something we HAVE to do. 

That's the sad truth, hardly anybody ever bothers to read the EULA, and most of them always have something in there that allows this sort of behavior.  The last company to screw me over (twice) was EA games. Not only have I been unable to play SimCity, but I also bought a game for my Android tablet to play on the plane the other week. When I tried to open the game, it refused to let me as I wasn't online and it wanted to check my license. I asked for a refund later that day, but of course, hidden away in the EULA was some blurb protecting the company and screwing over the consumer. Basically, they can change and do what the hell they like to the game, and can even switch the servers off without consequence.

Yeah, we're not EA...

The idea that they would have thought of some devious scheme all those years ago that would allow them to do what they've just done . .... seriously? i don't think so.

 

Let's keep things in perspective here, we're talking about a small company that is run by FSX enthousiasts for FSX enthousiasts. The change in policy results from having to compete with YouTube's growing catalogue of valuable content, In order to distinguish, high quality and therefore heavy content is needed which can no longer be offered the same way it used to be.

 

An oversight I'd call it, yes, but no evil plan was made years ago.

 

 

You get it! Thanks!

Watch out!  This guy is trying to sell you something!  You should always be wary of someone who has a financial interest in the advice he gives.

No, actually, it's free. Completely free. I have thousands of people watching these videos that don't pay a dime. And I love it! Because of a reason you suggested "My blog is not a lesson in doing things right.  It is the frustration of a newbie trying to figure out the basics.  When I look back at it now, it is actually rather embarrassing.  There simply was a lot of stuff I did not know, and more experienced flight simmers never thought were important enough to mention.  Of course, these are the things which are critical to understand (like the 250 speed limit below 10,000 feet).

One of the biggest problems with people who have been doing this for a while is they overcomplicate things.  Very few of them know how to get to the point, how to strip out the extraneous garbage and just tell you what you need to know to get started.  At the same time, there is a tendency to leave out important details, because, for them, those details are so routine as to seem unimportant.  Many of these people thrive on complexity and making things as difficult as possible.  The end result is they end up confusing people."

Doing an ILS to begin with is really, really overcomplicating things. An ILS is an advanced maneuver taught to people that are already competent in landing the aircraft visually. And ILS does NOT take you all the way to the ground, so how are you going to land in those last few hundred feet? 

Listen, I really appreciate you trying to help this guy out, but you're being super confusing and contradicting. I want other people to jump in here and back me up, because this is borderline ridiculous to say you can't land without an ILS. 

I can tell you aren't a real pilot, but I can tell you've learned a thing or two. If it were me, I would want to be starting out with the basics. ILS is NOT part of the basics. 

I would also want to be learning from actual pilots. 

It's up for other people to decide, but it's clear where the real experience is here. And I think that's who most people want to learn from, bypassing years of confusion. 

Stick to the default aircraft until you get the hang of things.  Don't even think of going to the PMDG site or the Angle of Attack site.  Those are for more advanced users.  Don't worry about ADFs/NDBs, VORs, Intersections; they are not needed to get you started.  Don't mess with FSX's brain dead Air Traffic Control.  All of these things will confuse the bejeebus out of you.  You can jump down these rabbitholes and waste a lot of time there.

This is totally inaccurate. We have a free course called Aviator90 that is absolutely perfect for you, and goes through all the basics of flying in a video course. 45 videos, all taught by real pilots (mostly me). Come on over, you have nothing to lose. 

www.Aviator90.com 

 

Hello forum -

 

I sure hope I am posting this properly and not violating any forum rules or anything.  Sorry if I am and please let me know.

 

I am brand new to the world of flight sim and have been into it for just over 2 weeks now.

 

I started out with the beginner missions in fsx and did really well until I got to the one that's the intro to jets and now I realize there's a LOT to learn but I'm excited and in for the long term because it's the jets that I got into this for to begin with.

 

I've been seriously active in researching and learning, watching youtube videos of people showing their successful landings and takeoffs (some of these are AWESOME!), reading all the inserts that came with fsx plus everything I can find online, and so on, and I am definitely learning new things every day.

 

A couple of initial questions though:

 

1. I experimented with adding skins/liveries/repaints and when I finished the part where you plug it into the Notepad file I was "denied access" and couldn't complete it.  Any ideas?  Do I need to go back and set up my fsx on my computer all over again only this time set it up under administrator?  I am running Windows 7 with the minimum system requirements to be able to run fsx if that helps.

 

2. When I did download and plug in a totally new jet (the total plane which was an Aer Lingus and not just the repaint) to add to my aircraft I did it from one of those freeware sites and while the jet showed up in my list of aircraft when I went to actually "fly now" with it the outside view of the plane was blank wherever the aircraft was supposed to be, from any view.  Was this a bad file or something?  Also, where is the most reliable, safest place online to add liveries and new aircraft?  I don't mind paying for them if they're the real deal and won't screw up my computer in any way.

 

3. Any ideas as to how to best approach my learning to fly the jets?  Any recommendations for learning material?

 

Thanks for your time any help will be GREATLY appreciated:)

 

Checkout Aviator90. You'll love it. 

I will confirm it for you: the FSX Jet Tutorial is garbage -- utterly unhelpful and confusing.

 

Having been in your position a while ago, I would advise the KISS principle:  Keep It Simple Stupid!

 

It is really easy to overcomplicate things.  Take things one step at a time.  Don't overly complicate things.  Learn to do one thing at a time.

 

Stick to the default aircraft until you get the hang of things.  Don't even think of going to the PMDG site or the Angle of Attack site.  Those are for more advanced users.  Don't worry about ADFs/NDBs, VORs, Intersections; they are not needed to get you started.  Don't mess with FSX's brain dead Air Traffic Control.  All of these things will confuse the bejeebus out of you.  You can jump down these rabbitholes and waste a lot of time there.

 

You need to learn how to use ILS landing system.  You need to learn how to use the autopilot.  You need to find the location of the GPS switch on the default aircraft.  Learn how to use the Garmin GPS system.

 

A while ago, I started a blog describing my misadventures in learning how to use Flight Simulator:  http://flyingsims.blogspot.com/  I sort of lost interest in keeping up with this, but it might be of some help.

 

Just plan on crashing a lot of planes.

I would wait on this stuff. You've got to learn to land and take off first, do maneuvers, and so on. ILS is actually quite advanced, and you need a good grasp of the machine to do simple things like descend on glideslope. 

Also, Chris from AoA mentioned they would have a camera set for download soon

Yup! It's available. 

I've tried to d/l both the NGX & 777 with no success.

Both download links should work.

I have their 747 Training DVD and their Lvl-D 767 DVD I bought a few years ago

 

But when I went to check their 777 materials, I am not clear as to what the product is. What are they selling? Even when I clicked on buy and its asking for my CC, I am not clear what I am buying.

 

Basic MArketing 101: What is the product package?

 

1) Is it a a set of DVDs/Bluray disks?

 

2) IS it a subscription for taking these training on line and if so for how long?

 

3) Is a downloadable video files? if so for how long I would have to download all the 35 or so hours of videos? Files sze and speed at which I could download?

 

Surprisingly, this basic information is not available front and center.  

 

Mom and pop stores (Most FSX vendors) focus on the product build, understandably they don't give sufficient time for marketing and selling. 

 

And we as a community need to nudge them a bit.

I would go ahead and look again. www.777Training.com is vague, but you aren't actually entering card information there. The checkout pages themselves are incredibly clear as to what you get, how it's delivered, and so on, don't to how many minutes of video you get. 

So I invite you to look at the bullet points again. It's very, very clear. 

ActiveSky got this feature, if you are using then tune frequency.. its somewhere in ActiveSky manual and you will hear the ATIS of airport where you are

Certainly not as realistic, though. But it's great. 

You sure? :mellow:

 

I'm thankful for the previous explanation in regard to the change for the download opportunities. I actually can understand the reasons and I also think the confusion among (potential) customers was greatly reduced. I was happy with some of your very early training products and my guess would be that the actual quality of your current ones isn't in question at all.

 

However, the 'almost every website' thing or the 'streamline the process' echo when it comes to collecting cc data for a trial sounds.. different to what I recall from the same Internet you are most likely using.

 

As being a fan of trial versions and also being an individual taking care of my own data, I really doubt that we're talking about the same type of trials, free offers or other software. Being at crossed-purposes maybe.

 

Either way, my suggestion would be to collect payment data when it's needed and to avoid it when it's not. As you see, the impression it leaves isn't necessarily as streamlined as expected.

I don't have any plans on changing the way this works. It works quite well. If people aren't serious about the product at all, then it's probably not going to work out anyway. 

This isn't a SaaS where you get a certain amount for free, forever. Like Dropbox and 2GB. It's a full product that gives you a glimpse into the training. 

I've had to enter my card details plenty of times before hand, knowing that if I didn't like the trial, then I needed to manually back out. 

This is the case for many of the services we pay for to run the business. 

Hello Mr. Palmer,

 

thank you for your reply!

 

So if the NGX Training is purchasable with Paypal, i jump on. I hope the additional Download-Option is then also purchasable with Paypal ;-)! Thats what i want to buy. Because i am a new customer, i dont have any problems with an additional Download-Fee.

 

But your suggestion to make the Trial and then contact Support doesnt work for me, because then i have to enter my CC-Data, and thats what i want to avoid. One reason why i would happily buy with Paypal.

 

Regards,

Sebastian Beier

Understood. We'll be enabling this in the future. It's worked out well for 777. But in order to do so, we'll need to code things up a bit different and that'll take a bit of time. 

So one question from me, which didnt be answered in the "Support-Center" of Aoa:

 

Is it possible to buy the 737-Training through Paypal in the Future? I didnt see a Paypal Button at the 737 Trial Page...

 

In the 777 Trial Page there is a Button "Checkout with Paypal"...

 

So i wonder if my question is answered here.

 

Regards,

Sebastian Beier

 

PS: My English is not the best, so i asked the question in the "Sales-segment", perhaps thats the problem. Dont know, but the question is clear.

For anything that isn't 'buy now', so basically all the trials, PayPal is not currently available. We will be turning on this functionality for a 'buy now' options with the NGX here in the near future. 

But if you jump in the trial, then contact support, we can basically eliminate the trial and get you started. 

I haven't purchased the T7 training, but I do have other packages from them. It's always been extremely high-quality tutorials and explanations. Their decision makes sense from a business standpoint. After all, they ARE a business. They have to do what enables them to stay in business. The choices they've recently made absolutely make sense.

 

When they had 100 (arbitrary # folks) customers returning to download videos, then they probably were able to afford it. Once the customer base grew to 1000's, then it doesn't make sense to keep the business model the same. Unless they are intending to deplete their funds and go out of business.

 

 

As far as putting in a credit card for the trail:

 

In the end, they're probably anticipating (hoping) that 80-90% of the people that view the trial will end up purchasing the product. At that point, all you need to do actually make the purchase on their website. The account #'s are already there, ready and waiting. IMO, it just streamlines the process. 

 

Complaining about providing a CC to view a trial, but having no issue whatsoever with giving the same info to the same people, through the same service, using the same process makes zero sense. It's 2013. If you're uncomfortable giving a CC # over the internet then...............well, I have no idea. Life is gonna be rough from here on out.

Can I give you a hug?... THANK YOU! 

We believe it's a MUCH easier way for everyone. 

Hi Chris

 

I must admit, I was a liitle annoyed at AOA's recent decision with regards to downloading videos. However after your explanation I can see why you decided to take that route and fotunately enough I have just had fibre broadband installed so streaming is not an issue for me.

I have just purchased the 777  training mainly for the systems and can honestly say that I'm very impressed and hats of to you and your team at AOA youv'e handled this release well. I didn't even realise that all groundwork was complete, with also 1 flightwork session also done.

 

Thanks AOA!

Intense, huh? To be 100% honest, we realized that we had a reputation to repair. We really got our act together with the 737 eventually, but it was too late for the community to see that. Our team is truly impressive. 

And yes, 100% of the training is done and complete in GroundWork, and the rest of FlightWork is already being worked on. 

Really appreciate your business, Gavin. Thanks for all your support. 

Thanks Chris

 

The website is SO much better and the streaming is excellent. For me I can never see the need to download - but I suppose I'm lucky and always on broadband or wifi.

 

Video quality even on IPhone is excellent.

 

I have one problem - I use Nexus 7 tablet and it struggles with Flash. Firefox add-in does it but can't get full screen.

 

Maybe you guys could look into it to help customers with more streaming and less downloads!

 

 

 

Dean33

Thank you! We've put a lot of money, time and effort into this website. We've been working on it since may. It's SO much easier for customers to use, and to take care of themselves and their account. And it's so much easier to get into the training. 

Would make it very expensive when sending abroad...Airmail, Duty etc. But ok for homegrown customers I guess.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. At all. 

Agree! No trial should require a credit card.

 

Too bad. The 777 flightwork seems reasonably priced.

Almost any website you use as a service will take a credit card up front for you to get in the trial. You aren't charged, you can cancel any time, and there's really no risk. We don't see the issue here at all. There's honestly no risk in your corner, yet there is STILL cost in our corner if you decide to bug out. 

We're confident that you'll really enjoy the training once you're in, which is why we offer the trial. 

One thing I was very surprised about was that on AoA's new website, there is not a single opportunity (that I can see) to see any example content; to see even a snippet of a video.

 

I'm not talking about a free trial, where I need to ...ahem... give you my credit card details, but just a demo video lasting even just 2 or 3 minutes, so that I can evaluate the presentational style, quality, professionalism etc, without the far far greater commitment of giving you my credit card number.

 

This seems completely counter-intuitive from a media company to not show any form of up front example of content type and style.......  it really put me off.

You get several hours of training by enrolling in the trial. There is a preview video at www.777Training.com, although it's not live for all viewers, just half of them. (we are changing that)

Your card isn't actually charged when you do a trial. You can cancel any time, and you are not charged at all. So honestly, theres's really zero risk. This is how our system work, and it works quite well. Much different than it had worked in the past. 

I agree with FSXtreme, I own them all, and got the 777 cpt package today. They got into severe problems with the 737 production and I understand the disappointment for people who bought that package early.

 

Nonetheless, I have no problem supporting them and in my opinion 55 bucks is good value.

Glad to see the people are recognizing we worked our butts off to release this training in full. Nick still has some work to do in FlightWork, but that's a done deal. 

GroundWork 100% done on day 1 is what we've been shooting for all along this past year. And although we weren't able to hit day 1 (we didn't get a copy of the 777 early enough, darn!) we did get AWFULLY close. 

Really proud of our team for all they've done to make that happen. 

I have no problem purchasing the new 777 training seeing that, in the past, all of the AoA training has been first class premium quality at a level with real world training that is way more expensive.

We're paying close to $60 for this training, while real world pilots pay that much every month for online training, that is very similar.

I watched the first lesson on the lighting and it is on par in quality with their NGX training.

Streaming it online is not a problem for me.  If someone purchased the real world online training that is available, they would also have to have a good broadband to pick it up, so there is no difference.

Thanks, Robert! It's worth noting at this point that our new streaming system actually detects your steam, and delivers the top quality video available. It also makes sure that your video goes un-interrupted. 

AoA has just screw up his existing costumers literary and just after that they try to sell a new product to the same clients?

 

Very wise commercial decision!

 

I wonder how Many existing costumer will bite the same thing once more?

 

I am sorry but if the flight sim community bite it once more that means that this rogue developpers have every right to consider us like brainless sheeps

 

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How are we a rogue developer? I have a feeling you're just making noise right now. We haven't screwed our previous customers. They got full access to their downloads (those stragglers are being taken care of by support) and no one is going without. 

Additionally, those members still have full access to streaming versions in the infinite future. 

So I find it hard to see how we're screwing our customers when A. we've given them (are giving them) what we promised and B. we're trying to stay in business. 

I don't know how hard understand how massive of a library this much video is, but it is a tremendous amount of data, and it's sucking us dry. 

There's nothing else to be said (although I'm sure I'll have to). This is not something I WANT to do, but something we HAVE to do. I'd rather just keep it simple and not have to be writing this, believe me. 

AND

We made our 777 Training a lower cost so those that DID want to get the downloads could add them on, and not be any poorer for it compared to other products. And those that don't need downloads don't get charged for it. 

It goes both ways. 

Chris, one would think offering DVD's or Blu-Rays would be a cheaper option than having to pay for all of that bandwidth and capacity.

It's still not cheaper. You're talking about DVD production houses that require a thousand copies minimum, at a premium. On top of that, we'd then be in the distribution business, which takes a completely different business model. 

We've done DVDs in the past. That's how we started out. Those were the good old days. However, it's not the way to go anymore. Everything is going digital, and we cannot shoulder THAT burden either. 

We decided to go all digital for our customers- Instant Access, No Broken Shipments, etc. 

Good thought, though. 

First off, I want to start off by saying that I haven't read through all the comments. I'm sure that many of the questions and comments are things I have directly answered for our customers that have reached out to us over the last week. We've gone through a lot of support tickets, a lot of comments on the blog, and a number of other sources as well. 

Before any of you jump to any further conclusions about the downloads, I offer you our official support article on this subject: http://support.flyaoamedia.com/customer/portal/articles/1291842-unlock-downloads-and-paying-for-downloads

Now that you've read that, and potentially put some of the rumors to rest, let me tell you with my own words what is going on here. 

We have a MASSIVE offering with our training packages. Our 737 Training is just under 35 hours (34 hours and 58 minutes, to be exact... not including LineWork). You can imagine that HD video of that size is quite a large, large set of data. Generally speaking, HD video runs about 1GB per hour. 

Now knowing that our product(s) are some of the largest, if not the largest, in flight simulation in relation to file size, you can see that AOA has a very unique challenge that not a lot of other companies have. 

We are not a large publishing house like FTX, are are not Flight 1 or Aerosoft or even a Flight Sim Store. We're a fairly small company, a niche of a niche, and costs are super, super important for us to watch. 

Recently I enabled a new analytics tool that showed me some shocking data- customers are coming back year after year, and taking their training again. At first my reaction was, 'This is really great! We'd love to have them back!'. But then I realized that our downloads were open, forever and for always, to our customers. 

My foresight at the time of offering these downloads didn't allow me to see that I'd be constantly devaluing our company, and continually running up the cost-per-unit. Already the costs for downloads were high, but we wanted to offer an experience that anyone could enjoy. So we did- without giving a second thought to the data costs. 

However, as time has gone on, and we've learned more about how our business runs, and how to stay profitable and survive, we have had to make some tough choices, and get real about this downloads situation. 

Our plan with the new website was to offer these downloads for customers that have purchased within the previous 6 months. Customers that were outside the 6 months we assumed had already downloaded their files, and wouldn't need to be downloading again anyway. 

Quickly we learned that wasn't the case, and customers that bought the 737 Training when it first came out still needed to finish downloading their training. Very soon after that, we contacted all past package owners, and let them in to get the downloads for free. 

If Angle of Attack is to stay alive and vibrant, we simply cannot run up the costs, and continually devalue our company because trainees want to take part in the training every year. Our streaming versions remain 100% open and free for always. Streaming costs, unlike downloads, are a completely different thing. 

We've heard people say, "these are the same videos. Why is streaming any different than downloads?" From a data delivery stand point, streaming is completely different than downloads. We pay for our streaming services on a per-view/storage size basis. We pay for downloads on a byte-for-byte basis. 

Streaming one of our videos is simply one less time we can serve that video, with the allotted views we have. Serving a download is byte-for-byte cost. 

It would be nice if we could offer downloads straight from our servers. However, this would be unrealistic because of the international nature of this hobby, and the world-wide customers we have. Not only would our servers get slammed and make the website unusable, but it would mean that people that are far away from that server location would experience painfully slow downloads. 

Therefore, we have to serve our downloads on a content delivery network, or CDN. A CDN is a worldwide network of servers that act as delivery points for our content. That means that when you request to download a video, you're getting it from down the street, and not from a server across the world. The speeds are much faster, and you can get to your training faster. 

CDN services, however, are not free. You can imagine that a company running such a large network of servers has to charge something reasonable for this service. And although the prices per GB are worth it, it's still a lot of money when added up over the course of a training package, and multiplied by the number of users taking part in that training. 

As far as our obligations to past customers, we have given them what they asked for. They have their downloads. Apart from a few minor issues we are chasing down with our current website (I saw some of you were complaining about them) we have given access to all of those videos. 

If you read the article above, you will have seen several key points. 1, the videos are available always on streaming. 2, follow files, diagrams, transcripts and other supporting documents will forever be free. 3, past customers and new customers that were promised the downloads have been offered or are getting the downloads. 

For those that have contacted our support, they have seen swift support regardless of the influx of tickets we've had. They have also seen a lot of the issues with some of the files to be fixed. We have a large content library to manage, and so the help from the community letting us know where things are amiss has been incredibly helpful.

If you have an issue with the new website, or with the downloads, or with anything else, you're welcome to write our support. We're quite helpful, reasonable, and fast to get to you. 

However, by complaining about it here, it does nothing. We are busy supporting people that want to be helped, and are reaching out. Our team doesn't have the time to scour the forums and make sure that everyone is getting what they need. 

We recognize that there have been issues getting started with the new website, and we apologize for that. We completely changed out website because it was not user friendly before, and simply caused way too many issues. Moving to a new system means users having to learn a new system too, so we thank you for your patience. 

At the end of the day, you're going to find your training easier than ever before to learn and take part in. This transition is a little difficult, but for those who have been able to get their issues fixed, it's the best experience they've had so far at Angle of Attack. 

We're excited for the up and coming 777 Training release. In the meantime, we look forward to ironing out the final wrinkles in the system so you all can get your downloads. 

Again, if you have anything you need, or trouble accessing the website, please come get a hold of us and we will help you. 

Thank you to all of you for your business, but most of all your morale support. It's awfully challenging in this market, but we feel our new way forward will be better and more rewarding for you as a customer. We can't wait for you to see that, and experience that. 

Until then, 

Throttle On!

I believe you're facing an anti-piracy issue here. Not accusing you of anything, but you need to take this directly to PMDG support if you have a legit copy. 

I feel I have to point out one glaring fact unless I missed it along the way through all these pages. 

 

Last time I checked, I have never seen a commercial airliner flight without a FO.  And last time I checked they dont hire robots. They are all humans. On the point of making mistakes, there is a reason it is a two man crew. If one makes a mistake the other can pick up on it, and figure it out. Goes for both Captain and FO. If you watch Just Planes videos they are constantly in agreement and verified. So if an erroneous thing is put into the FMC and things are not making sense, you have two heads to figure out whats going on. 

 

These videos and all us simmers are flying as single pilots. Not in a cessna, in a Boeing aircraft or of the like meant for two.

 

So this goes back to the MD11 videos which I thought were fantastic. Learned a hell of a lot. But comparing them now to the current 737 flightwork videos, the point of it being live makes it that much better. Scripted is great but its perfect in an imperfect world.  When you go to school, at least back in my day, the teacher purposely did things wrong to see who picks up on things and why and tackle them from there. The point is that is how we learn the best.  

 

And you can bet Boeing is learning from engineering mistakes of the 787. The next time we will do things differently because we will have retained it better. 

 

Just saw Jasons Flight 5 video and its a handful.  Again it comes to the point of a missing FO, but he was very professional in keeping calm. In a simulator in particular and in this case the weather not playing nice with different updates is our simulation world not being exactly as the real world. 

Even then Jason did an outstanding job of figuring things out in what was a dire situation. If it was scripted this would have gone all perfectly planned out and that doesnt happen in RW. Add in ATC which he didnt have on this flight and things are different again. You will not get this kind of indepth on  a youtube video. 

 

Thanks for the hardwork, owning up to mistakes, but teaching that we learn from mistakes and adapt to the situation at hand. These are not the kind that send us into the ground, they are there to make us better pilots. Its why Real World pilots have to go and refresh to dire circumstances at a real simulator, and ive seen them coming out of there sweating. 

 

Look forward to 777 training. This is fun. 

Read your whole post, but only wanted to quote this particular part. 

Thanks so much! You're right- the single pilot environment is extremely difficult. I've mentioned several times that I have to do that, film, keep the production value up, teach, and FLY. It's actually too much, and not very safe. But it's what we have to do. 

I'm really glad that you enjoy our live training style. I think it's what we're going to be doing in the future, albeit, highly improved from what we're doing now. And honestly, I think we have great quality now. I just want to always be doing better. 

Thanks again for your wonderful words and support! 

I'm glad everyone is enjoying Flight #5. The first 4 flights were meant to be quite basic yet thorough. You're out of the basics now. It's time to put the big boy pants on!

Just a heads up, flight 5 is up and it's a really good one, I really enjoyed it and I'm pleased with it, I learnt alot :-)
 
Poor Jason couldn't have got worse weather if he tried, but he acted calmy and professionally (....and well I won't spoil the surprise).

He does a fantastic job, huh?!

For now ... I'll wait. I'm pretty curious about the ground work though ... no one have called into question the quality of that aspect of the 737 treatment.

It was also good to see Chris jump in here. Most well managed companies do not become enraged with negative criticism ... they put in place measures to address those issues and become better at what they do.

Thanks for the compliment here. I really do want to change AOA for the better, and I see myself as a humble person that is willing to change and improve continually. 

I'm attaching an example of GroundWork, so you can see it in action yourself. 

Jump forward to about 3:20 to see some of the more advanced animations and graphics we provide. 

I purposely chose what can often be a BORING section, to show you how interesting it can be with our tools and production quality. 

Putting a comment in the video wasn't an option. The mistake wasn't identified until the video was posted; then viewers (those that were supposed to be learning, not doing the teaching) identified the problem.

Putting a comment in the video is still an option, actually. We have the ability to do things like that. I explained this in the other reply I had for you, Jordan. At least this particular mistake. 

I was denied the (partial) refund I requested, because I purchased the Captains package longer than 30 days ago. In fact, I purchased it in August 2011.

If you purchased that long ago, I can see the reason for the denial. That was quite a long time outside the 30 Days. We may extend our policy on that, though. I'll have a think about it. 

We've got to keep this stuff within reason. Very, very few FS companies do refunds. That fact that we do them at all (after you've had a chance to enjoy and download the material) is telling on how we view our customer relationships for the long term. 

We just think there should be some sort of middle ground, otherwise we'd get hosed.

'Fresh pilots' maybe true of the 747 training, but not for the 737. The whole marketing premise behind the 737 training was to learn to fly like a pro. That was never going to be an easy task to accomplish; but if you wish to market a product in such a way, to the most hard core of simmers, and charge more than the aircraft itself, it's naieve to expect much in the way of mercy. Especially if the videos make it look like you didn't read the manual.

A ton of assumptions here, like we didn't read the manuals. 

For all (not just Jordan) we do offer a professional solution. I've laid out the scope of our training so far, and also the fact that we do things others can't, and things manuals can't. We have a LOT of material, and it's very, very professional in terms of what is taught (and the accuracy) and the actual production quality. 

Professionalism is not perfection. We offer a very professional package with this training, and what this entire thread is about is a few minor mistakes that were made in the nearly 30 hours of training we've done. 

I was really just pointing out that the earlier point made by someone - that the maker of the videos is a real world PPL+IR - doesn't necessarily mean he's going to be credible on all accounts.

You're completely right. It totally don't know everything. There's a TON I don't know. This is what I love about aviation; there's always something new and exciting to learn, if not simply refine or expound. 

You're absolutely right. I'd fail the oral portion of a PPL checkride if I had to take it today.

Bahaha! Wouldn't we all. Only so much can fit upstairs. It's that age-old PMS- Pilot Memory Syndrome. 

I didn't mean to offend, I just thought I read somewhere in the past you had done a lot of filming in one go. I appreciate what you are doing which is why I bought the series in the first place

Now worries, my friend. I hope you're enjoying it so far. I think the VAST majority of people REALLY enjoy this training. There are different levels of simmers out there, and therefore different expectations. The expectations of a beginner aren't the same as a 12 year veteren. 

We have to find some middle ground to build everyone up in the same way, offer value, etc. 

These 12 year vets are about to get the crap kicked out of them in the flights Jason does. Flight #5 is now released, and will challenge any pilot. 

I think you need to consider external persons carrying out tests of your training packages prior to release. Note their comments, revise it, resubmit, if "most" happy, then go for it. If you already have these people, then their error filtering needs to be lifted. While PMDG guys frustrate the $%^ out of us with delays etc, they know only too well, simple errors can hurt them more than a delayed release.

Hey Geoff,

Thanks for the encouragement, and the great reply. Much appreciated. You have been a voice of reason in this post, and I really appreciate that. It's often easy to jump to conclusions, but you've really wanted to get the facts straight. Thanks for that!

First of all, I didn't know that's what our forum said. Can you tell me exactly where you found that? 

We're trying to accomplish something in those words, but it could be said in a much better way. First, we want to help people with their issues. We do not actively monitor every post. We do however monitor tickets. 

What we want to avoid is people posting issues there, and then getting upset because we're not responding, and then getting venomous about it. We'd rather they come to us for support. 

Anyhow, that needs changing. 

As far as the selected quote above, you're right. We have quality assurance on our GroundWork stuff, but it's difficult to get it on our FlightWork stuff. Especially to find people that are objective about it, and know that there are other concerns than just perfect switch position. That, if we HAVE to redo something, it's going to cost a whole lot of money, take a lot of time, etc. 

If it passes all those tests, then yes, it will be redone. Which is why Flight #4 may get redone for FlightWork. We'll see with the reaction on this survey, though. 

I don't pretend it's easy, but you need to get out of your defensive mind set. While your preflight videos IMO have been quite good, the flights themselves feel like they were all cobbled together in an afternoon. Accuse me of flaming you all you like, but that's how I, and I suspect many others feel.

It's impossible to do something like this in an afternoon, and that's why I'm 'defensive'. There's a disconnect and a lack of understanding with many people (I don't fault them) on how much work goes into creating videos. With GroundWork, people expected basically one every day. The level at which we do this is NOT like a Youtube video that's just thrown together. We have many graphic assets that go along with what we do, and also a lesson that fits into an overall course and structure. 

Things like the iPad on the screen are not that easy to do. It's a completely separate layer and video, it has to be synced up, cut, etc, etc. 

Apart from that, these lessons will be seen by thousands of people. So there's the stress of doing it right. And the flights are never flown right the first time. I have to redo them to get them right. 

So no, they aren't just thrown together. There are many, many hours both pre, present and post production that are spent tweaking and refining these videos. 

Once it's done, then it goes to rendering and publishing, which takes hours itself as well. 

I'll defend that position, because not many people understand that. 

Yes professional pilots will make mistakes. However the errors present in your video don't demonstrate your human fallibility, they demonstrate you haven't fully understood the operation of the aircraft. This may sound rather harsh but taking the MCP speed as an example, the FCOM specifically states you should use V2. While it's perfectly possible you, or indeed a professional pilot, may inadvertently enter the wrong V speed on the MCP, this isn't what your mistake was: you simply didn't know what the correct value should have been in the first place; a professional pilot would. This is a subtle but very important distinction.
 
I know the errors listed above may seem small, but it's precisely this details that I, and I suspect many others, purchased your videos to learn.
 
I hope you'll find this more reasonable, albeit unpleasant to read.

Yes, your tone is reasonable. Thank you. 

Each mistake I've made, I've generally had a chance to correct it. When you enter V2 (which is the correct setting), it still jumps to V2+20 after takeoff. That was the part I had confused. 

It was corrected for the remaining 3 flights.

And I want to point out that you're picking out one thing in 4 hours of footage to critique. The information in that first flight was incredibly in depth. We sat on the ground pouring over every part of the cockpit, talking about the practical application, for nearly 3 of those hours. 

I can only assume that because you hadn't pointed anything out there, that it's nearly flawless. 

Flawless, and, impractical. Real crews know how to do that stuff, so that's why in the later flights we pick up the pace, and start barreling through. 

What has me a bit tweaked about all this is that there are a few minor errors that are being pointed out, almost all of which I've corrected. 

Someone else mentioned Anti-Ice. I explained that in depth several times. The simulator does NOT act the same as real world. In the real world you have visual indications of ice, and you can blast off the wing ice in 1 minute cycles. 

In the simulator, you still get the icing consequences, without the visual cues. It's a silent killer. 

So our SIMULATOR procedure is different than the real world procedure. I know and recognize this. 

(By the way, if you take a fuel injected single engine aircraft through icing conditions in FS, and you don't have carb heat on (yes, it doesn't have a carburetor) you're going to fall out of the sky.)

Just an example of things we have to do different. 

You guys are welcome to run icing cycles as they do in the real world. But it's going to come back to bite you eventually. 

Our anti-ice procedures (especially engine) are totally correct. I studied and studied that topic, and I'm confident in our methods. We have to tweak wing ice, but there you go. 

Thanks again. 

Hi Chris, thanks for the taking the time to reply to people's comments.

 

I didn't mean I was expecting you to be laughing and joking all the time, but there was just something about these videos that came across as if you were stressed and uninterested. All other videos you have done you have a very different tone, and sound like an enthusiast, really into what you are doing. I know you're only human, but I can't help thinking the big mistakes that came up in these videos and the above are all related. I hope you will be doing the 777 flightwork videos, and I hope when the time comes, you'll have more time to do them.

This is really good feedback. And I sort of agree. I think I could really pick up the energy as I teach. This is something I will certainly be working on. Thanks!

Actually I am reading all the 737NG documentation (did not purchased it yet, I am so busy with JS41...), it will take a month or so - if I would not have the time to read all the stuff (which I personally believe is crucial for proper commanding the airplane), I would simply buy the AoA's product. They promised 30hrs of material as far as I remember. That would be about half the time needed to read PMDG's tutorials and FCTM/FCOM + briefly scan of QRH. Plus, You can see the action, not only read about it... And I bet I will have to read it all again after I will purchase the 73NG and take it for a few legs. I am in a comfort of having the time to read, but not everybody has - remember that. That's why AoA is here for us.

Bartlomiej,

Thanks! You nailed it. 

Our 747 Training is nowhere NEAR as complex as this 737 Training. The 747 Training is about 8 and a half hours long if my memory serves me right. That includes all of the systems, procedures, and the flight we do. 

737... GroundWork alone is 20 lessons, and 9 and a half hours. 

I haven't even started to tally FlightWork, but lets see... 4 hours, flight 1, 2.5 flight 2, 2 hours flight 3, 2.5 Flight 4, flight 5 is 4.5, with a current total of 15.5 hours Flight Training. Pretty crazy. 

I'd say we've gone beyond the 'just beginners' and we're into a whole different area now. I don't think you can learn to fly from manuals. I just don't believe it. It doesn't make any common sense to me. Videos are the second greatest thing we can do apart from teaching 1-on-1. Highly visual, you get to SEE what to do, and get all the others cues, not just the manuals stuff. 

Anyway, thanks!

I've just requested a refund for flight work too.

 

The groundwork was well worth the money, but every flight work flight has been riddled with basic errors, albeit many are fairly minor. I'm sure Chris is trying his best, but unfortunately his best is not providing the professional level training that he advertises.

And you'll get one. 

This is where I'm going to challenge you. Not every flight has been riddled with basic errors. Riddled would say they are everywhere. They aren't everywhere. You're pointing out one or two things in a sea of hundreds of things that were done correctly, and saying the entire video is flawed as a result. 

I realize you're not happy, but we have to be fair. There are minor things here and there, yes. I've admitted them, learned from them, and so have the rest of you. 

Our videos and our courses are extremely professional, and they are something that cannot be found anywhere else, unless you want to pay hundreds of dollars for a mediocre groundschool course, or tens of thousands for a flight simulator checkout. 

We don't promise perfection. Perfection and professionalism are completely different things. 

And I stand by the fact that our training is as professional as we advertise. 

If you expect perfection, that is something we never sold to you. If you expect to fly your simulations to a professional level, then that IS what we have advertised, and that is what we deliver, and continue to deliver, not only through our videos but in the way we handle our community. 

We are here to improve and grow, just as you are. We cannot improve if we're already perfect. 

With the experience that I have had with AOA's 737 training I would not recommend getting their 777 product.  It has taken them more than a year to get to the point that they are now with the 737 training.  They had a lot of excuses but they constantly missed expected delivery dates and still have a way to go with the flightwork and linework sections.  They seem to treat this more like a freeware project rather than something that customers are paying good money for.  The videos are somewhat haphazard and lack a real professional approach to preparation and execution.  It could be that they will have their act together by the time they start selling the 777 training but I wouldn't bet on it.

I completely and totally disagree, respectfully, with everything you've said here. Let me pick it apart and tell you why. 

"They had a lot of excuses but they constantly missed expected delivery dates and still have a way to go with the flightwork and linework sections."

We haven't made excuses. We've given you real reasons that we've followed up on time and time again, we've had an open voice, and an open conversation about it. These videos are extremely difficult to produce to the level that we do, and at the price we do. We've been forthcoming, and I've shared many details about our challenges, the reasons why we were struggling, and so on. 

I've also shared our triumphs. But that doesn't matter much for someone with an already sour taste in their mouth. 

"They seem to treat this more like a freeware project rather than something that customers are paying good money for. "

Now this I really don't understand. Each video we produce takes a tremendous amount of time. And at the frequency, and the amount we produce, there is no possible way that we could do all that being freeware. 

This is a full time job for many people on our staff. 

Overgeneralizing based on a few mistakes is offensive and wrong. Our team, and myself, work incredibly hard to produce high quality training- and a lot of it! No freeware outfit can do what we do. Or even come close. 

I can't imagine paying for any product like this. In preview shots, the quality looks great. For me, there has been no airplane that I have not understood after tinkering a bit on the ground with the manual, and a few test flights of my own. The NGX is super easy to learn, I don't think paying for these videos is needed.

Respectfully, you aren't our customer type then. People that want our products are people that realize that pilots don't fly an aircraft like 737's by reading manuals alone, and people that find it much easy to see-and-do than read-and-do. It's not done that way in the real world, and you can't expect real and accurate results that way. 

This goes to the core of what we believe: You can't learn to fly with manuals. 

I am no expert but the last few videos are rushed and not very good at all, they seem to be concentrating more on T777 competitions etc , I'm a AOA subscriber and have always backed them however I feel they are getting sloppy and it shows in the narration during the videos and the mistakes that are being made, this basically teaches people the incorrect methods.

Some of what I explained above will answer to the 777 competitions, but I want to talk about the 'rushed' and 'sloppy' you're referring to. 

In the past, AOA customers have become reliant on completely scripted and very structured flights. This doesn't allow us to have ANYTHING variable. Weather has to be perfect, saved, and flown the same way. The aircraft and all procedures have to act the exact same way, almost down to the second. And each and every word has to match what is going on. 

(Flight #1 in FlightWork is 90% this way. So you can see the difference. Yes, MUCH more structured, but also unrealistic)

With this FlightWork, we really wanted to do it realistically. Pilots NEVER knows exactly what's going to happen, so why should we? Sure, we had an idea of what we wanted to teach during those lessons, which fit into our routes. But we wanted this to be much more realistic, because flying a flight in a scripted manner is completely and totally unrealistic. 

We figured that the mistakes, WHEN they came (and hopefully minor) would be overlooked for the fact that this was done live. 

It may seem more sloppy, and the narration is different, because it's LIVE. I'm flying and doing the voice over at the same time. Not flying the flight, and then doing the voice over later. 

I hope that sheds some light on that. 

I have to agree on this. I really loved their Aviator 90 and AviatorPro course until Chris moved on and it was left in shambles. His enthusiasm on these videos was addictive and I enjoyed just watching the videos and eagerly awaited updates.

 

However with the 737 flightwork, I knew something was wrong when they released the first video for the hand-flying. I didn't see the point of it, but just left it at that and waited for the first flights to come in. Just a couple of points

 

1) Chris sounds fed-up and uninterested. He is continually sighing loudly and sounds stressed. It comes across in these videos quite clearly, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks so. I guess we can't blame him though.

 

2) A mistake done once (i.e. Entered +57 instead of -57'F) can be forgiven, but doing it in two videos and then blaming a bug in the NGX is crazy. This "little issue" really messed up the FMC, and I'm surprised this wasn't immediately picked up and the video started again.

 

3) After the first flight, he seemed to stop using checklists and just seemed to go from memory, not really checking anything properly and missing things. This is evident when in the last flight to Madeira, the departure was messed up pretty badly, and he again blamed a bug in the software and just did something that wouldn't be allowed in the real world.

 

4) Using unreleased software in the videos, so we can't actually follow along. PFPX looks great, but none of us have it, and we've already waited long enough for the videos.

 

After the huge delay actually getting these videos out, I'd actually read and done most of the stuff myself from tutorials on Youtube. Although not NGX specific, I really love FSX404's channel on Youtube, who does an approach to Innsbruck and Madeira the hard way.

 

Eitherway, I will still be buying their 777 course when it is released. As after everything, I really do like their videos

1)Yeah, I'm human. I do the lesson WHILE I'm flying, and doing things right can be stressful at times. I didn't feel that stressed, though. I apologize for have less pleasantries in return for a realistic and live flight. That's not sarcasm. Just saying, if that's something that's lacking, sorry about that. I'll work on putting on my 'happy face'. 

2)This actually was the largest mistake I made, and a dumb one. You can bet you guys will never be doing that! But I actually didn't enter +57, I entered +157. If you enter a number (two digit) in that field, it'll automatically be a negative number. Because it wasn't anywhere close to the range it needed to be, it entered it at as positive. 

I need to review this in the video. From what I was told, I entered a 1 as well, for whatever reason. (Believe me, I'm not that stupid. I know better)

3)It was a bug in the software. And checklists aren't Do-lists, they are CHECK lists. Items are checked after they're already done. If you aren't doing items on the checklists by memory first, and checking them second, you're not getting the point and you're not doing it as real crews do it. 

Didn't he film the flights in one afternoon?

Right, I'd like to see you try that. The fact that the time of these flights can't even be fit in the waking hours of one day is pretty telling. You obviously have no experience with making videos. No offense, but it's ignorant to say something like that when you don't have a clue what goes into it. 

No, the Innsbruck one was done last year, and then the rest seem to have been done in early February.

Last year meaning the saved flight files were at the end of December, and the other flights were done in January, and released in February. Just wanted to clear up that is wasn't a YEAR between flights. 

From the quality of them, you'd be forgiven for thinking so.

That's why your posts are getting deleted on AOA. What's the point of even saying anything? I'm starting to think your username has something to do with THIS DEFINITION of flaming. Pretty sure you're aware of that, and it's simply part of your online character. If I have the choice, and I see it effect my community enough, I will delete your comments from AOA as a result. People are there to learn, not read stuff like that. 

I purchased the MD-11 training and was really happy with it.

I have been thinking about the ground work training for the 737 but all I hear is bad things but I want to learn the systems better with out reading 000s of pages.

Can anyone reccomend any good videos to learn all about the systems similar to groundwork from AOA please Payware or freeware?

You can go to Youtube and get inaccurate information, or you can go get a real type rating. Those are your choices. We'd love to have you onboard! I promise things are not as extreme as some of these fellows are making it out to be. We have an incredible product you'd enjoy, and would find value in. 

I haven't checked out any of the Flightwork videos yet, but the groundwork videos are really good. If video #4 is really that bad then Chris will usually correct major issues in his videos, or at least he used to. Maybe he did feel rushed to get it out as this was his most ambitious AoA project to date. I really enjoyed his MD-11 and 747 videos, but they were released without the rabid pressures of when is the next video is coming out. I just hope he realizes that he doesn't have to wait until PMDG releases their A/C before he starts his video productions as I never understood why he didn't film groundwork while we waited for PMDGs release. Seems like he generated most of his learning graphics separate from FSX anyway.

A few points here, thanks for the post. 

First, we do correct stuff when needed. And we are seriously considering correcting some of these issues that people can't seem to look past. We don't see it as that big of a deal, as things happen to even real crews. But we'll correct them if needed. 

Second, in terms of not waiting for PMDG to release the aircraft, that's exactly what we've done with 777. Granted we can't fly the thing, but we sure can get ahead in a lot of ways! I can tell you right now that you guys are going to be blown away at the turn around we've had from 737 to 777. You're going to be surprised what we have to offer on release day. And how complete it'll be. 

Conclusion

Wow, this was a long one! I hope I did a bit of a justice with a lot of these, and explained more what's going on. 

I will be monitoring this thread now for follow up comments and questions. 

vvvvvv   PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE   vvvvvvv

Fill out THIS SURVEY. It'll help us tremendously in determining overall feedback from the community on our FlightWork line of products, so we can improve now and for the future. It'd really help us out a ton!

Thanks so much, again, for all your support. It's much appreciated. We look forward to many wonderful days of flying ahead. 

Throttle On!

Chris Palmer

Owner/Founder

Angle of Attack

Hey all! I suppose it's about time I jump in here and give my two cents, shed some light on what's going on, and so on. 

I want to thank all of you who support AOA and continue to support AOA in our effort to offer Simulations best training. Our job and mission is a big one. And we certainly couldn't do it without your support, feedback, and often even patience. 

I'd like to clear up before I get started in direct responses a few things I think are important to keep in mind. 

First, contrary to popular belief, I'm a real person. Like you, I have dreams and aspirations. Like you, I have struggles and hardships. Like you, I work hard and do my best with what I have. I by no means accept that I am perfect in any sense of the imagination. I have my limitations, but also my strengths; like you. 

Next, I work very hard on AOA. I started this company in 2005 with the Level-D 767 company, and have somehow (by the grace of God!) I've survived and at times thrived in this industry. I'd imagine that this work is like any industry, with challenges with customer relationships, culture, product quality, politics in the industry, costs, cashflow, and so on. 

In other words, there is a lot more than meets the eye than a few videos (that is the topic of the discussion) and I hope that through my comments, you all can see that I'm a guy a lot like you: I love aviation, I love simulation, and I'm a bit of a computer nerd. 

So, here goes my response. Some are just point clarifications and information, some I will challenge you, some I will give praise, some I will verify, etc, etc. 

This is long, so if you're interested, and you'd like another side to the story, please read. 

I've also created THIS SURVEY that you can fill out at the end, or now, or whenever. We take customer feedback very seriously, and I will be reading the responses myself to better direct our efforts now and for the future. 

Here we go...

If you are dissatisfied and you are still within the 14 day "trial" period, request a refund. That is what I did. They were quite cordial about it.

We actually have a 30 Day Return Policy, but we are also reasonable beyond that. Get with our support team and we'll talk. We're pretty easy going as far as this is concerned, and we really want our customers to be satisfied and happy. 

It would appear critical posts are being deleted from the AOA pages; at least mine was. I gave them the benefit of doubt for the first few flights, but there are so many mistakes. They even go to all the trouble of using PFPX, then use the information incorrectly to fill in the FMC (the reserve fuel level hasn't been entered corretly once yet.)

As I noted on our website, I deleted your comment because you were being unreasonable, and regardless of my attempts to engage you and talk about it, you continued to go on and on. IT wasn't getting anywhere. 

Reserve fuel entry is supposed to be entered the way we showed you in the last several flights. Some other airlines do it differently. Reserve fuel should be the fuel remaining at the field upon landing (which is on the paperwork). 

I will of course verify this information, and make sure it's correct. 

First of all I have to apologize to the AoA guys (Chris) as I've been a little hot headed when posted this yesterday. I've watched other 737 training videos and they are of quite good quality.

 

However I have to stand behind my opinion, that the flight #4 departure has been if not unprofessional, then at least rushed.

First he has planed the SODR5E out of rwy 04R. He was unable to find the appropriate plate and because of the first waypoint, he has decided for TURI5E departure instead, which has been programmed into CDU (FMC). He than checked the route, which has shown a crazy loop on the ND. Comment was, that sometimes the anomalies like this happen in the PMDG and they usually correct themselves and that a loop like this is not a part of the SID. Checked the rest of the route afterwards. He missed some other strange turning points in the departure on the ND during planning and left it as it is without further action. In no way you would want to do this in the real life.

After T/O he has realized, that FD is giving him strange lateral reference and had decided to disregard. Flying the SID he has realized, that there are many strange turns (at least it is what ND showed) and had tried to keep the magenta line. There were many bank angle warnings during his efforts. He has also been very late with starting the turns. After some time he has realized, that he is unable to keep with the route and has started to delete some waypoints to avoid the strange turns.

 

This was a base for my comment. He should plan and go through the departure during preflight and compare the chart with FMC. He would discover those mistakes and would have a chance to correct them before trying to fly the SID and compensate in the air.

 

To be fair I have to say, that the rest of the flight was OK and the approach into Madeira has been executed well.

First of all, Horani, sorry for your frustrations here. I also appreciate your new and easier tone here. Thanks for that. 

I want to talk about this departure. It's true that at times in a simulator we can face situations like I faced on this departure where things simply don't work the way they should, for whatever reason. The thing we have to keep in mind is that the systems modeled by PMDG, and then coupled with systems like the weather engine and the navdata, can have minor and major hiccups. 

On my flight, for whatever reason, I had a major hiccup in this system. This happens in a simulator because the redundancy is just not the same as it would be in the real aircraft. The level of data, and the fidelity, just isn't as robust as what real airlines pay crazy amounts of money to have. 

I'm not an idiot. I know this departure was pretty bad. I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to teach you all this exact lesson: that things do happen, and you have to know what to do- because when you're in there air, it's time to make the decisions you need to in order for a safe flight. 

The autopilot and FMS went completely wacko on me. I've seen those 'turns' we saw in the flight path iron themselves out as you reach a prior leg, or something of that nature. Most of the time it works itself out, and rarely does the aircraft take over like that. 

As a pilot, we all have to intervene if we know something isn't right. 

For whatever reason, that departure was not right, so I had to do the best I could with what was being thrown at me at the time. The setup was solid, the route was set, and I do not believe that should have happened. 

My attempt to teach a valuable lesson that stuff can happen, seems to have bitten me back. 

One thing I've REALLY tried to hammer across in FlightWork that is NOT going over well with our viewers (I will be investigating why) is the fact that things do not ALWAYS go according to plan. In fact, they rarely do. 

We can send you perfect videos. We've done it in the past. But to be honest, for every perfect flight you see from us (MD-11 for example) are 20-30 takes that you DONT see, where there are minor errors in the simulator, or freak-outs like that. 

In the 737 Training, because we are doing so many flights, we thought, "Why not teach these guys how it's really done? We'll record and fly live, things will be unscripted, and we'll fly as real pilots do". 

That doesn't seem to be coming across very well. 

In my defense: This departure, and something in the computer, was completely messed up and I had to take immediate corrective action. 

Not in my defense: I could have taken over early, monitored the expected conditions better, and so on. I have accountability. 

But there ARE reasons I left the mistakes. Reasons that are for teaching purposes in addition to the other reasons above. 

Hi Horani? My pre flight would have been TUR15E to allow for the first way-point. Sometimes when you place a SID in the FMC, a bit of fine tuning needs to occur to avoid some way-points that do not follow the plate for what ever reason. Or if they are required maybe a speed restriction is in place to meet the turn radius. As you say, maybe he was too rushed and did not step though the plan prior to finalising it? As I said earlier, I do not have the AOA 737NG training package.

Regards

I did the TURIL 5 E as well, from what I remember. (I haven't reviewed it again to check)

Everything from the FMS looked good in my mind (other than the loop, that I've often seen in FS, which seems to iron itself most of the time. )

I do (did) own it ... and I was becoming concerned with my purchase when AOA wasn't even half done with the promised 30+ hours of tutorial before they started advertising for the new 777's coming out. From what I can tell they are rushing through the 737 coursework so as to flesh out the 777's. Now that is just my take on the matter ... I just got a bad feeling ... and processed a refund.

Actually, I have nothing to do with the 777 Production. I will be doing FlightWork, but we aren't in a position to work on that yet in 777. 737 FlightWork is completely separate from concerns of 777. 

So us posting about 777 isn't choosing one thing over another. It's that 777 and 737 have separate production teams. 

Hi Charles, Maybe you are right. Now we have the 777 soon, then the 747v2, not to mention the DC6? I think Chris and his guys should concentrate on doing the tutorials well and if that means a tad slower, then so be it. I think it is a case of limited personnel resources. To be fair to 737 guys who purchased the course work, he should endeavour to do it as per agreed time frames, then start the next a/c etc. I know it is exciting to get the training out for each a/c when it is released,or close thereafter, but I think this just is not practical with limited resources to spread your self too thin. 

Regards

I've hashed this out in several places, including here on Avsim. The comment above alluded to it, but the crux of it all is that our 737 FlightWork team, and our 777 Team, are separate. It's not even that one COULD work on the other. The 777 GroundWork team is essentially working on 777 GroundWork. Their skillset is specific to that product, not FlightWork. FlightWork takes a completely different production style. 

I use GroundWork Team people when and where I can, if they're needed. But the truth is, they just don't have the kind of impact on FlightWork that they do on GroundWork, because of how those products are produced. 

(Continued in next post)

There are some videos made by real world 737 pilot. Skysurfer007 is a good example.

He does some really great stuff, and it's cool to see his inside knowledge. It's still not as complete and comprehensive as our training, though, with all of the systems knowledge, then the flight knowledge, etc.

Still great, don't get me wrong.

Thanks Dude, this I will look into. Do some of you guys know I any good "aftermarket"-books is written about the MD-11?

 

Regards,

Morten

Personally, I don't know of any. It's such a rare aircraft that it's just not mainstream enough to really be worth someones time. It's such a shame, because it's a great airplane.

Hi,

 

If all you want to learn is programming the FMC, then the B737NG FMC User's Guide by Bill Bulfer is a good buy.

Totally correct! This manual has more information than you'd ever need for simulator. But you can basically do anything in the manual in the simulator, which is a huge tribute to PMDG. Although, it is quite a boring read at times, it's really solid stuff.

I am going to get the captains package tomorrow. Hopefully will transfer the vids onto one of my ipads for viewing in bed. I learn easier at night than day

They look awesome on the iPad, I tell you what! Just really, really impressive. Especially if you have a newer generation with a retina display.

I am going to get the captains package tomorrow. Hopefully will transfer the vids onto one of my ipads for viewing in bed. I learn easier at night than day

Can't wait to have you onboard!

Eh? There's a lot of good info on youtube

This is just one of many examples: I was watching a Youtube video the other day and the guy had started his engines at the gate before even doing the FMC setup. I'm sorry, that is completely incorrect. This happens all the time. The information is rarely accurate, and not of very high quality.

Anyone can make a video sharing what they know. But to make a very high quality video, with verified and solid information, that's a completely different story.

We'd love to have you on board with us. If manuals and text training are your thing, then go for the free stuff. If video training is your thing, I'd suggest you check us out.

You won't be getting accurate information from Youtube.

Good luck in your endeavor!

HDEv2?

I just like to keep things simple with ActiveSky. They aren't perfect, but it works well. I wouldn't recommend FEX for weather generation. If you're talking about cloud generator in the sense of building cloud layers, then that'll work. But if you're looking for weather textures, get REX.