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I not commenting anymore in here, The main purpose of me helping over here was to bring an un bias truthful picture of thing. Because people are basin their purchasing decision on information presented over here. I wanted people (fellow simmer's) to get the best parts possible and to know what to expect, so they don't get disappointed and miss inform. Happy Flying!!!! bye!

Martin, Is about the fact we are trying to tell fellow simmer the best information possible (un bias). They are potentially taking our advice and go purchase parts for their rig. Don't you think they deserve to know the real picture of thing, don't you think if some of the misleading comment were true I be the first to say, yes man you are Right...... B) . Is plain and simple I'm not against you or anybody here because I'm also a fellow simmer. I'm against the automatic assumption of the new technology been better (with out the proper un bias and extensive research and analysis), if that is not the case. That my friend is a reflection of immaturity and been fanatic (in general). Let say it was the opposite that I didn't do my due diligence, the story would be difference. I have track, research, and analysis the whole launch of this chip (from different source) since day one. I was hoping like everybody else it would been different. I can agree to disagree (I'm not right all the time// I'm not perfect either), but when it comes to advice people are making a purchasing decision on, no sorry I'm and always be a champion of the truth (best un bias information possible). Happy Flying!!!!!

Martin, Their is going to be a lot of evidence of course. The thing you are missing is you have to get the big picture. in other words is the reviewer been bias for example, what is he really trying to say. You can't take everything from granted, you should take it with a grain of salt. Do you know anything about cherry picking a cpu ? ......... That is when they pick the best part, in this case the cpu. Let me ask you something; is doing that telling people the real picture of overclocking and performance potential ? (No). Their is two different type of cpu: engineering sample and retail. The ES has proven to be better than the average retail sample, that mean it will overclock better (4.7 ghz on average) retail is averaging around 4.3 ghz (sources: Pcpro, Pcper, TTLC, Extremetech .......) FYI I never take anything at face value, I research and research and then analyze it (ex. how truthful are they been and so on.....). Yes sir I read the forum saying it runs hot and you have to delidding. Is delidding save, secure ? (No) If something goes wrong you have to pay for a new cpu, oh!!!! wait another $300.00 plus.... , that my friend is expensive and not everybody can afford that. In reference to Overclockers they got and engineering sample, that is not real world. Have they posted a followed up article about retail sample and their potential ......... Nooooo P.S. Bottom Line you can take thing for granted a few guys in a forum unless they done extensive research and analysis are just miss informing Any how Happy Flying!!!!

Arwen and Flyaway, Here is another review from Hardocp: (Conclusion from hardocp) The Bottom Line My experience for the last couple of weeks with Haswell has been a good time. It has been a lot of fun working with the new architecture and I had some really good feelings about it, but going back and truly analyzing the benchmark data, it left me feeling a bit flat. I skipped upgrading my personal system when Ivy Bridge launched and elected to stick with my Sandy Bridge at 4.5GHz which has been running happily for quite a while now. That was just a little more than 2 years ago. Obviously at identical clocks Haswell is a bit faster than Sandy Bridge, but given the way my personal system usage has changed in the last couple of years, does having 15% better encode times or zipping up a file folder 1 second faster really mean anything? I hardly ever rip and encode video files anymore in today’s digital download world and when I do, I am generally not in a huge hurry. And if I was, I would have a LGA 2011 Sandy Bridge-E system sitting at my feet. As we have repeatedly shown, if you are using applications that are heavily threaded and likely in the content creation arena, the more cores the better. That said, a Core i7-3930K will still cost you around $570, and the motherboards are still hovering around the $200 mark on the very low end of the spectrum. From the hardware enthusiast perspective it is going to be very interesting to see what retail purchased processors give us clock-wise in the wild. With Sandy Bridge and to a lesser extent Ivy Bridge, you could pretty much go buy that 2600K or 3770K processor and know you are going to bang out a solid 4.6 or 4.7GHz without a terribly expensive cooling solution on a decently priced motherboard. With everything I am hearing now about Haswell, 4.6GHz is sounding kind of dicey without less than $100 invested in a cooling system. If you purchase a Haswell and overclock it and find out 4.4GHz is pushing it for your particular processor, well then your gains from Haswell's superior IPC will be lessening quickly. From gaming enthusiast perspective quite simply your hard earned hardware dollar is better spent on a new video card or display. (Or SSD for that matter.) While certainly CPU clock speed comes into play in the gaming arena, the games we play are largely GPU limited and most of you reading this already likely know if you have "enough" CPU for gaming. Or you likely know you are few CPU generations behind and already know you will greatly benefit from a CPU and motherboard upgrade. When I started out on this review project I did not think that Haswell would be a hard sell for the current Sandy Bridge owner, but that is exactly what I am thinking right now. I still might upgrade my personal SB system, but if I do, it will likely be because the ASUS motherboards I used over the last couple of weeks were actually what was getting me excited about Haswell rather than the processor. I generally have a resolute opinion about hardware after I have spent this much time using it, but I think with Haswell I am going to have to see how the enthusiast hardware community embraces the retail i7-4770K and i5-4670K processors and the results those bear before I truly figure this one out. I think Intel has spoiled a lot of us overclockers in the last few years as it truly has been easy. Are we about to go back to the days of spotting the "Blue Core TBird?" here is the link for the entire review: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/06/01/intel_haswell_i74770k_ipc_overclocking_review/1#.UcU7xaMo670 P.S. Best of luck!!! Happy Flying!!!

Arwen, Another piece of advice is haswell has the issue of ram frequency (ram) not been able to run as fast when overclock. don't take my word, if you can watch the youtube video I post - it talks about it in there. Flyaway, don't take my word, please if you can watch the youtube video I posted and read the article (Pcpro) P.S. Can some one off chip run @ 4.7 ghz, yes but is not the norm so (best of luck guys!!) Happy Flying!!!!

Ben, I have...... it is not the norm their is too much variance with this chips. I know it was posted by westman. P.S. bottom line you are going to believe what you want. I bet you are telling me to go and see that post witch I already did before you even said anything and you probably have even bother to check the posting of the article and youtube video (From people that have dealt with this chips directly like jj from asus or Pcpro people that are building the computers with this chips). Also may I ask how old are you ? Any how you said you not trying to be arrogant. Let me tell you something you still have to grow up a lot. Sad .... :(

Ben, Really!!!! the IPC (instruction per clock is only on average 15% faster than sandy and yet you are saying a 4.0 ghz is equal to 4.8-4.9 ghz really!!!! P.S. You guys are really something else Ignorance is bliss....

Arwen, Let me ask you, Are you going to use your computer for something else demanding like video editing (beside FSX) ? The reason been Ivybridge-E is around the corner (September or October) and it will be more future proof for X-plane. Hopefully it will also be solder. IMO

Verybumpy, At stock yes, but who is going to get a K part to run it a stock.........he he he Happy Flying!!!!

Ben, Close loop water cooler are not up to the task of pushing haswell pass 4.3 ghz it is stated by JJ from Asus in the video I posted. The 4.7 ghz it is possibly but is not the norm. On Average haswell is only hitting 4.3 Ghz as stated in the Pcpro article. So, I follow hardware really close I know what I'm talking about. Happy Flying!!!!

Ben, The problem as I said multiple times is: 1. Cheap Tim 2. Less surface area to dissipate heat 3. Integration of FIVR (voltage regulator inside the cpu) - implementation is not the greatest // pretty average at best 4. Higher TDP at least in comparison to Ivy 77w vs 84w it is possible with full water cooling loop as is shown in the video. It is way to expensive to the average simmer. P.S. Physics is playing a huge part A) again less surface 200K more transistor (in comparison to Ivy 1.2 Million transistor) Prefill close loop are not cutting it FYI Happy Flying!!!!

Here is a ES sample overclocking demo. Again retail sample are having the problem of only overclocking to 4.3 Ghz on average as per pcpro article above.

Manny, Why is always buying the latest better ? why ? Are we keeping up with the Joneses ? In this case Sandy is the better part, it has better thermal interface, last longer and is only slightly slower. To me buying Ivy or haswell that are inferior in quality is not a good idea. Now you tell me that Ivy or haswell brings over 30% performance improvement, that is a different story, but that is not he case. As a fellow Simmer I like to protect my investment (always buy better quality unless the performance improvement is noticeable, again that is not the case). And I advice fellow Simmer the same way I like to be advice (factual and the truth). Finally if people are going to use their rig for something else beside FSX, maybe video editing a program that may take advantage of the new AVX2 instruction set, then haswell will be a good option, but can't automatically assume new is better it depends. P.S. We have heard this before with Ivy and still stand with haswell, we need to stop using our visor and automatically assume new technology is better. Happy Flying!!! Westman, You just got a great cpu but that is not the norm. Their is a article on Google that talks about system integrators (in the UK)are having problems with haswell overclocking past 4.3 ghz as the norm. Again good for you (got a good cpu), again not the norm with haswell. So generalizing and potentially implying that is the norm is a disservice, plus you need high end water cooling too. Not everybody can afford that. Westman, Is haswell faster, yes by about 15%. That is not a noticeable improvement, marginal yes. http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/382267/intel-haswell-hotter-and-slower-than-expected Here is a link that talks about Haswell Problems.

Not all haswell are hitting 4.7 ghz the average is 4.2 ghz - 4.3 ghz. Heat is not and issue if you don't want the part to last long. why telling a fellow simmer to buy a part that is inferior in quality, when Sandy is still good (only a tad slower that's all). If the rig is only for FSX simmer will be better serve by Sandy and it will also last longer. IF Intel changes back to solder or at least a better quality tim then with the slight performance improvement, then upgrade is worth it (IMO).

Who are you to correct me, You have talked and talked and talked of Tim thinckness been the primary reason. When I have show up directly from Intel spec papers the main reason for the thermal issues. They selected a cheap Tim develop in 1996. Let see if you delidding and apply any other kind of Tim/paste (correctly) it still don't bring the temps. That shows thickness is not the main reason for the thermal issues. Only with high end Tim the temps goes down (ex. Coollaboratory - Tim/Paste). So does this let us know? Oh!!! wait that the quality and composition of the Tim/Paste is what matters. In other words that is the main reason for the thermal issues. P.S. People has delidding and used (applied correctly) Tim like Tuniq, MX-4, AS5....... but the one's with 15C - 20C (average) drops are the people that has use Coollaboratory (High end Paste). So again quality of the thermal interface, either solder or high end tim is what has matter and is the main problem.

Martin, I don't design cpu's for Intel , but I do have common sense and can analyze thing. In all honesty you are sounding a little fanatic of the company and their recent practices (that your point of view, not everybody else). The spirit of my topic's and feedbacks is to give simmer real objective facts (non bias). Please stop been a fanatic and please don't bother to reply. You have obviously make up your mind. P.S. Respectfully your maturity level is pretty low Happy Flying!!!

Martin, That your thought's (good for you); I'm here just to help people with my research and facts, not fanaticism. Happy Flying you all!!!! Mark, As soon as I fine a List I will post it here.

Mark, Good point, if not for performance stand point at least for longevity is a very good reason. P.S. Happy Flying!!!!!

Martin, You are missing the point specially on a K part the Tim under the IHS shouldn't be there in the first place. What I'm trying to convey is to stop been ok with things done wrong. Not just Intel but any company that does things like this. Wake up man!!!, I know about thinckness. Again the thing about this is we are paying a premium ($20-$30) for K parts and getting fool with poor quality TIM. P.S. That's is not ok!! also a few overclocking site doing their testing shows that after over clocking the tim will degrade around 3 yrs. Also you have made up your mind and I'm not going to change it, but at least want to informed the rest well. Any how happy Flying!!!!

Martin Wilby, Here is directly from Intel Spec sheet: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/3rd-gen-core-lga1155-socket-guide.html: See Page # 88: Stated the Thermal interface material used is: Dow Corning TC - 1996 Also here is the test from Hardware Secret that shows that such Tim don't even make the top tier: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/Thermal-Compound-Roundup-August-2011/1360 Have you seen the thermal paste when you are going to replace it on top of the CPU, it look like is disintegrating (that is because heat, chemical composition [metal vs grease] quality, in other words it degrades with time) and it needs to be replacing. Oh!!!! wait if you remove the cap or IHS what happen ? ........ you void your warranty....... Right (if you have the finances you can replace it (self insurance), but not everybody has that capability. Bottom line Intel has change the solder for a TIM developed in 1996 and a cheap one too. Case in point is like we all know their is lack of competition, forcing people (overclocker's and flightsimmer's) to buy the xtreme lineup witch is overprice and not that beneficial (at least for FSX). They are deceiving us IMO, because if I buy a K part you expect bigger overclocking potential at least 4.5 ghz or 4.6 ghz not only 4.2 ghz - 4.3 ghz on average (at best, I repeat average). They are also deceiving us (IMO) because they are charging an additional $20 -$30 for a K and we are getting almost nothing (repeat almost). Finally if you want to think that all they do is ok........ Well P.S. Again as a fellow Simmer all I want to do with this reply is open people's Eyes, so people wake up and stop accepting this kind of treatment. Happy Flying any how !!!

True, The speed of instruction per clock is also important (IPC) plus the overclocking in essence is what will give the best performance example: (hypothetical number) Sandy @ 5.0 ghz = Ivy @ 4.5 ghz = Haswell @ 4.2 ghz P.S. That why upgrading from sandy or Ivy is not relevant or necessary. To me it all come to built quality at least in between Sandy , Ivy and Haswell. Solder last longer than thermal interface material (TIM/ paste) exept if the TIM is good quality witch is not the case with Ivy or Haswell Intel used cheap Tim. That's why the heat and overclocking issues, also the fact the die is getting too small (not allowing the heat to dissipate as well vs the 32 nm die (Sandy)) Happy Flying!!!!

Flyaway, My honest opinion is to go with Sandy if you can still find it. Is a better chip; it will last longer because of the solder and you don't have to delidding. The tim they use under the IHS is crappy and it will degrade with time (not over night, but still....). Delidding is not worth it (yes it will lower temp, but if something goes wrong you are on your own (you know what I mean). The only way I will do something like that is if you have the finance's to go buy another chip. Finally I suggested Ivy even with the heat problem because compare to haswell is a little better. Honestly wish you the best of luck!!!! Happy Flying !!!!!

I think at the moment Ivy is a good option (IMO) I hear you man Happy Flying!!!!

i7 3770K Haswell don't overclock that well plus you safe on not having to buy a new Motherboard. Haswell is only 5%-10% faster clock for clock is not worth it IMO. Average Haswell only overclocks to 4.3Ghz at best. Again go with Ivy. yep you need delidding Haswell forfeit you warranty nd all of that. Not that you wont with Ivy if you want to go pass 4.5Ghz or 4.6 Ghz(in some cases) P.S. IMO not worth it, save the money and go Ivy.

https://news.google.com/news/more?ncl=dSrxOdX0gi-PyiM&ned=us And click on the second hyper link (Gartner: Windows 8.1 Could "Quiet Most Detractors")