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Posts posted by PigsInSpace

  1. It's definitely more beautiful then FSX but my framerates were jumping all over the place. Even without addons and low settings. And to make things worse I'd get verry blurred textures...


    In FSX I'm flying with the orbx package and a lot of addons with all sliders wide open. 30fps and smooth like butter.


    Maybe it's my hardware. Not the fastest but also not the worst I think:


    AMD Phenom X4 955 @ 3.64Ghz

    AMD Radeon R200 / HD 7900 3GB

    8GB dd3 RAM

    Hi Ray,


    Sorry if its already been mentioned, but I would start with your AMD processor as it just doesn't have the single threaded power of an appropriate Intel CPU and has never been a good choice for FSX/P3D, not even close.

  2. "Why are flight simmers so rude to each other?"


    My top three answers....


    3. Because, even X-plane simmers are miffed that MS abandoned FS? 


    2. Because there still is no sim that will give us proper seasons >and Cloud shadows at the same time...and where are the god rays?


    And the top answer is.......


    1. Because, there is no one else in our lives to be rude to?






    OMG the WEIGHT of that contraption on your MOBO, sir.


    I am looking to liquid cooling, likely the 100i, for exactly that reason, my V8 is far too heavy, cant even move the pc with it on without worrying about it damaging my MOBO.



    Uh OK.


    No, you of course are right, it is Big, AND Heavy.


    Personally this is my fourth rig with a D14, my first purchased in 09 is still working just fine as originally used on a I7-920 still running at 4.4GHZ just like the Haswell and I have transported it a dozen times (though never trusted to anyone else).


    FrozenCPU is the second largest distributor of the D14 in the US, though they will never ship a unit with one installed (obviously) there has never been one single complaint of it ever hurting or damaging a MB - ever.

  4. LOD: one size does not fit all.


    For example, yes keep at 6.5 or below if using mid to high AG settings and use decently dense scenery add-ons like ORBX etc,


    On the other hand if you use large high res photo-sceneries, with-out AG (as usually the case) you can safely use higher LOD's of 7, 8, 9.5 however start using it with a few really high res airports and or city paks...back to OOM U Go.

  5. So much repetition and so may words there Martin, trying to dig ourselves out are we?


    Or maybe just deeper in the hole?  B)




    Irrelevant, we have to use max RPM for an accurate comparison, because that's what Noctua give us



    Incorrect, Noctua provides lower RPM figures for each and every fan and I used those figures.


    See the specification pages: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=produkte&lng=en#fans



    Irrelevant, as we have already established, the extra airflow in terms of your 150 fan, is bypassing the cooler, not passing through the heat sink at all, so not contributing to CPU cooling. 



    Completely false.


    None of those fans completely cover the D14, not even the larger 150mm. This was already established for you; what part of that don't you get?


    Hint - Is the D-14 round or square? The fan?


    See those corners uncovered by the fan? Should I put a smaller fan in there? Would that make it better or worse or not matter? A 120mm then? Lets just remove it right?




    I think I am starting to understand why this is all lost on you.


    According to you little performance gains don't matter?


    That they can be had while being that much more quiet,= not good?


    I don't know Martin, why do we need a 14mm why not just two 120mm?


    Or why even two fans on the D-14 its not that much different than just one is it?


    Heck, Lets just use the stock CPU cooler, and hey why use something like LIquidPRO when we have mayonnaise or Skippy?


    Gee-sh Martin, I'm so sorry I bothered to show something in here that actually works and can be applied for free (no cost - just move the fan)



    Irrelevant, ..... Irrelevant...bla...bla...bla



    Yeah...so "irrelevant" that many people will quickly ditch last years top performing TIM or even a the whole Cooler just to gain a fraction to a few degrees of performance.


    A few degrees C at such a low RPM's value usually exponentially grows with RPM increases. Is this to lost on you? Yes, at 1000 RPM VS the 750 I am using now; the gain is more than just a few degrees C and it keeps going up from there.

    And this was done, not by Adding a fan but simply moving it were it will be more effective.


    As far as the 150mm vs. 140mm fan:


    What do you think was the reason that Noctua chose a 140mm fan over just keeping them both 120mm? Sell more plastic?

    That I chose 150mm is probably the same reason that Noctua chose the 140mm over a 120mm, no? 


    And, no ALL grills are restrictive and increase noise, they only become less restrictive by doing things like bulging them out to lessen noise (increasing distance from fan) and create more surface area etc.

    Simple test anyone can do, take a moving fan (carefully) and put it close to the grill, and take it away, near, take away, noise, less noise...better check it out Martin before anyone else does.


    But no matter I must be wrong, such stupid little details like that.


    Go on Martin, write back about how worthless and inafective these pursuits all are and how I am misleading those that might have or want a D14.

    What exactly have you come up with, anything?


    Hey, Rob you can save money and not bother with larger less restricted Intake, larger valves, longer duration Cam, larger diameter free flowing exhaust, etc..put that airbox back on there...wot restrictions? They don't matter...wont add up to nothin...LOL. 

  6. You have taken your first remark right out of the sky,


    Your second remark is totally incorrect. This has been tested and SLI proved to be working in certain circumstances ( spotplane view and 2d without instruments ).

    That is seperate from high AA and multi monitor setups.

    Word Not Allowed has published about it a year ago.

    Word Not Allowed? NV? Total BS please dont make me laugh!

  7. Mr Pigs, when I said "why anyone" you may have mistakenly taken that literally. I wasn't referring to the PC market as a whole, I was obviously referring to the enthusiast, those of us on this forum, overclocking our PC's. Pushing our PC's to medium and high overclocks.


    Ask anyone that owns a D14 and they will tell you it's very quiet, very comfortable in terms of noise levels. They would have no desperate need to make it quieter, why would they when it's already quiet. Appreciation of noise levels is subjective of course, but when the majority tell us the D14 is quiet it becomes more of an objective determination.  No one complains about D14 noise levels. So perhaps you can tell us why you require hyper quiet PC's? Do you have a specific requirement that means you must reduce your noise levels even lower than the already comfortable levels of the D14?



    You say you have achieved that, the holy grail, a "near silent" but very heavily overclocked system, but to  be honest, unless I come round to your house and set up equipment to monitor your PC's noise levels, I have no idea just how quiet your set up is compared to mine. To be honest, I don't think you have achieved a quieter CPU cooler than me, see below...


    My only motive for giving you a bit of an interrogation [perhaps unfairly] is to determine if this mod is worth my while attempting.








    I've just looked at the noise levels quoted for your fans, and mine, on the Noctua site...


    Your fans 


    150: 19.2 dB(A)  150: 19.2 dB(A)  120: 19.8 dB(A)


    Total 58.2


    My standard Noctua fans:


    140: 19.2 dB(A)  120: 19.8 dB(A)  120 case fan Noise Blocker: 20 dB(A)


    Total 59


    The difference between the two, 0.8 dB(A) wouldn't be audible. We are both running our fans at less than full rpm of course. You have gained a couple of degrees by moving your fan closer and 0.8 dB(A).


    Sorry not worth it for me.






    Oh my, I think we can see what you did there, the noise of your leaf blower must be getting to you.. :rolleyes:


    Why you used figures at max RPM without taking into any consideration the obvious points already put in front of you to make some point I have no idea. ???


    The 150mm  produces 6% more airflow at the equivalent RPM of the 14-FLX than you are using (comparing Noctua's own figures) so We are already more efficient and then we can add the much less restrictive cut out, there is really moving vs obstructions and loss of airflow plus the added noise of the grill with a fan attached - fact.


    So If I'm going to slow things down a little going big helps not only in raw airflow but also in effecting a bit more of the cooler as it covers more (but we already know that) but I digress....


    Those funny DBA figures you posted:


    The 150mm fan @ 900 RPM is 13.8 db. The 120mm is 12.6 @ 900 RPM certainly not 19 DB you strangely used.


    But the system I showed you is even less than that isn't it?


    @ 750 & 500 RPM in fact, which puts the noise level at just above 10 db.


    Db is logarithmic unit of measurement, do you actually know how loud 10 db is? 


    Right exactly!


    10 db is the equivalent of normal human breathing, vs 19 or more?


    Give me a break!


    The case fans I have running at 500 RPM? A pin dropping from 3 feet, heard 3 feet away is significantly louder - Hello?


    And no we don't add the DB levels together as you have done, that is not how it works at all and was a dead giveaway.


    As for for your "motive",  I have no idea but why you keep grasping for straws just to try to put me down is a waste.


    I hope you have a pleasant weekend, you take care.

  8. http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1123&page=14


    Quote :

    "Having a closer look at the results we gathered while testing eight different games and two different benchmarks with two different presets, we see that the Core i7-4770K, with our "low-preset" is on average 6.4 percent faster than the Core i7-2600K.

    Switching to our "high-preset" makes the Core i7-4770K's become 1.1 percent quicker than the Core i7-2600K.

    Overclocking the Core i7-4770K to 4.5 GHz makes the performance with our "low-preset" go up by 11 percent but when it comes to the high-preset the increase in performance is only 1 percent.


    Regarding the Core i7-2600K the situation is similar: 8.5 percent gain with "low-preset" and 1.3 percent with "high-preset".


    What's quite interesting to see is how the wattage of our test system increased while maintaining 4.5 GHz stably.

    The 4770K needed 40 percent more power and in case of the 2600K the increase was "only" 17 percent.


    If you bought a Core i7-2600K a while back, then we can tell you without the shadow of a doubt, that there is absolutely no need to get rid of it and replace it with a Core i7-4770K.


    From a gaming performance point of view it really doesn't matter which of the two CPU's you have in your system. Should you actually want to upgrade your gaming PC, then don't go for a new CPU in this case, you should rather choose a new graphics card."


    For non FSX titles that are less CPU dependent than FSX that is true, as the "High preset" more GPU related test showed, nothing new about that at all.


    For FSX though a 2600K has to run at about 5.2+GHZ or more to =  4770K@4GHZ, as the 4770K is much stronger clock per clock.


    And sadly no, SLI does not do even squat for FSX, only slight edge in super high res multiple displays and ultra high AA,  this has been tested to death too many times already by almost everyone who has tested it including Aces.

  9. To be honest, I'm not sure why anyone would need the D14 to be quieter...


    I understand why you might think that, the D14 is indeed quiet compared to many solutions needing to employ much louder fans to generate enough static pressure and turbulence (=noise) in an effort to keep things as cool.


    But to also be just as "honest" I'm not sure why anyone might think that unless sleeping under a rock or half deaf maybe?, (just kidding) considering how the demand for ultra silent powerful cool and quiet systems is driving the market for the fastest growing and most profitable $egment in high-end to custom PC from cases, complete Solid-state systems thru to video card design and beyond.


    Take care.

  10. ihe photos by pigs in space show what i dislike about that cooling set up ,which I use,it is  to bloody big ,when I want to clean the fans/fins change memory etc its a night mare for me ,the cooling however is excellent keeps my i2600k at 4.5 nice and cool which is it,s job ,but I feel that a Swiftech H20-220 is calling ,does anyone use this cooler,is this a good choice ?



    Its two whole screws, if its that hard for you get a cordless...



    If it's worth it for you, buying two new expensive Noctua fans, and going to the trouble to cut out your rear fan grill, for a mere 2-3 degrees, then great stuff. For me though, it would be pointless. The D14 in standard form, is the quietest high end cooler I have ever owned, I have no need to make it even quieter, I can't hear it anyway. And my overclock certainly isn't on a thermal knife edge, and requiring a mere 2-3 degrees temperature drop. 


    My response was concerning near dead silent solution, since you are not into that kind of thing and have grown accustomed to the leaf blower box I can understand your response, but does it hurt you so much to think?  :lol:


    Yeah.. mere 2-3 C @ 500-750 RPM LOL...  900, 1200 RPM etc?




    Oh the logic.

  12. Standard stuff when we test. Prior to mod run a stress test, full load, full RPM, determine average temps across the cores. Make a note of ambient temp. Keep all variables constant. Make a note of the delta T. Run the same test again after the mod. Time isn't critical as long as it's the same for each test, and provides sufficient time to reach max temp.


    If we don't do this, and keep accurate notes, we have no idea.




    1-2 degrees is not significant statistically, as it's within the margin of error we would expect when testing any cooler. 2-3 degrees is minimal. So yes, pretty much what I expected, not much of an improvement in terms of temp compared to the D14 standard set up.






    No, it's certainly not oval. :smile:




    Yes, this is precisely what I was saying. The standard 140 fan supplied by Noctua, is wider than the heat sink. This is deliberate on Noctua's part. Designed this way so that some air bypasses the heat sink and cools the motherboard. You have now replaced that 140 fan with a bigger 150 fan, and in addition added a second 150 fan to the heat sink. Clearly, where the extra diameter of the 150 fans overlap, they are directing air outside of the heat sink [rather than through the heat sink]. Thus the extra diameter provided by the bigger fans is not contributing to CPU cooling at all, only motherboard and case cooling. So the bigger fans can't cool your CPU any more than the standard fans.


    I suspect that the slight improvement in CPU cooling you have experienced is more to do with the fact that you have cut out the rear fan grill, which would have helped considerably if it was the restricting kind. Plus removed the rear case fan, and fitted a replacement fan directly to the heat sink.  In any case, we are not talking about big changes in temperature.


    What about the fan at the bottom of your case, was this added prior to the mod or after, so not a variable?



    Great stuff that your system is now quieter and that you're happy, but what I will say is that I can't hear my D14 anyway, above the noise from all of the other fans in my enclosure. Enclosure fans are running at low RPM, and D14 fans are full speed. The D14 has never been noisy, so no need to make it quieter.


    You have a prodigious number of case fans there. I count 5, Could you hear the D14 above the noise of those case fans, before your mod?






    But I don't think it works by a significant amount.


    I'm not deriding your mod, I think it's a great mod if you are happy, I'm just trying to determine if it's worth it for me and anyone else with a D14, in terms of temp reduction and noise reduction. And to do that I need to delve into the details. No offence intended.


    These systems are Flow-tmp bench tested (as used at ForzenCPU) with a whole slew of 24 hour burn-in runs, its as accurate as it gets.


    No, its not about the missing grill (one of the first mods you should make, you want airflow or not?) its about the added fan minimizing drag and maximizing airflow thru the cooler.


    I provided honest real world results not some vague wishful unproven crap, I'm not here to waste your time, please don't waste mine.

    2- 3 Celsius repeatable difference on accurate consistent testing is a real gain in extreme testing, compares very well with other efforts you could spend time money on and given it is just an added fan running at the chosen speed of 750 rpm and don't miss the point - its not about breaking records but it is about being 2/7 stable at high overclock in a quiet and efficient way (notice 4.4GHZ Haswell - 16GB decently fast ram running thru the IMC non de-lidded effortlessly with room to spare).


    Case fans? Noise?


    You must have missed the post were I explained that ALL the case fans are dead silent at 500 RPM. 


    And no, the 140mm fan does not cover up the D14, it in fact is non effective on about 15% the surface area missed at the corners, the 150mm slightly improves on that.


    Overclocked, Cool and Quiet. No muss no fuss.



  13. Does anyone have an experience with any XB-70 Valkyrie software?


    No one has aver really done a proper 3D and air model of one, they always get so many details wrong.


    I hope this is corrected one day.


    And it would be better if air vehicle #2 was modeled, since that was the best version, most stable to fly and the one that cruised at Mach 3 for more than 30 minutes.

  14. But precisely what?


    What was the temp with the standard D14 set up and what was the temp after your mod?


    Your centre mounted fan overlaps, so the greater fan size is only contributing to motherboard cooling, as the extra air flow isn't passing through the heat sink.


    Same for the rear 150 fan, the overlap isn't cooling the CPU, the the overlap is only cooling the enclosure.


    So for the reasons stated above, I don't think CPU temp would be that much lower than the standard D14 set up.


    "Precisely" what test and for exactly how long bro? 1 hour? 24? what RPM, ambient tmp?  <_<

    Every test run the temps were sometimes only marginally better and other times sometimes by more than 2-3 C, depending on the CPU draw and length of the test but >never lower than with just two, though I will say that two 140's plus the one 120 perform nearly as well in keeping the tmps down, yet they were a tad more noisier as expected.


    No, the 150cm fan is not an oval, :blink:  it sits in precisely the same location as the 120 or 140 would sit so it has no where else to go but up, so it also has expanded cooling capacity to the sides as well as to keep moving cooler air thru, around the cooler and out of the case.


    It works.


    Interesting mod to remove the rear fan and grill, and mount the rear case fan on the D14.


    How much better would you say that is, compared to the standard set up?



    It has actually been sized to accommodate another 150mm Nochtua.


    Two benefits, roughly 33% larger area for air to move thru and without the added turbulence thru the mesh the actual gain is more, plus less static pressure=less noise.

  16.  I said it's layout in the case without shrouding is not maximizing it's efficiency.  If you take a look at PigsInSpace pictures there are tabs and all kinds of other case elements that are disrupting air flow out of the case.  To improve the units performance at the very least have and air exhaust shroud that will prevent the hot from being re-introduced into the case.






    I understand were you are coming from, but it is just not the case for two reasons:


    1. Do some measurements on a flow bench and you will come to appreciate that shrouding is very restrictive unless A - you are using some very powerful fans (noise) or B it is large enough to handle the introduction and outflow with out restricting - which usual means impractical in size - so all you are doing is isolating the air from mixing with warm air (IF that is the problem) but now it is slowed down even more, one step forward and one step back.


    But yet...


    2. Look at my case again and you will see that there are two large 150mm fans above that are blowing in fresh air directly above the D14  and that fresh cooler-air it wants a quick exit and the nearest one is those three fans leading to  an open port with a 150mm fan leading the way. there are two front 120mm fans at 500 rpm and one bottom 120mm fan all blowing in as well. The Video card is blowing out and the PSU has its own intro-outro fans.


    Much home work done on several configs using pretty much the same layout and we have had guys knocking themselves out trying to come up with a better quiet and cool system and it has yet to be beat. This has been repeated at many tech-sites but with only two fans and they were 140mm, when Noctua introduced the 150mm recently the combination of using three was the icing on the cake.

  17. This chart from xbitlabs may prove be useful:



    I'm 100% satisfied with my Silver Arrow SB-E (not extreme) with its PWM fans, which is a feature that the NH-D14 fans suprisingly lacks.


    Put three fans running at just 750rpm on the D14 and then see what happens.  :blink:


    PWN fans on my D14 here (150mm to boot):



  18. If it doesn't matter to you, great, fly on.


    As stated, this was talking about near silent cooling with very good cooling (4.4 on a non delided Haswell with 16GB of ram thru the IMC)

    Having worked on as many variations of custom systems over the years with my the good friends over at ForzenCPU with pretty much unlimited possibilities I can say I haven't come across a config yet that competes at those near zero noise levels with as much cooling power without getting ridiculously huge foot print or cost as what I just showed.


    And any person that thinks that water systems are quiet obviously doesn't know what silent means and if you don't care to learn something new and better to expand your own horizon good for you. :lol:


    NF-A15 @ 750 fans are more silent than any pump you are humming with, oh I mean using, let alone add to that how fast your fans running to keep up with the demand for stable temps=static pressure needed on dense radiator =more noise and just what fans are you using?=more noise, and IF you try to compensate by lowering power on the H2O it wont keep up with your O/C  for long.


    For all others interested, there are some test out there that substantiate this and if you want a guiet no frills, easy low cost low maintenance solution the one I posted above is hard to beat. B)

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