Cowl

Thanks Brian. Thomas, I agree with Brian. It seems you haven't read anything about that, but the FBW system issue has been widely discussed by me and other users (including a rw 777 pilot) in well over one hundred posts within at least two different threads. And what's more, in spite of still being asw you say in the issue tracking thread as under investigation, PMDG (Tabs and Robert) have already confirmed that we were right and that the FBW is not working as it should. Besides, (unless it is a dream I had), they have stated in some other post that the FBW system has been completely rewritten for the new SP). So I respectfully think you should bother to research the forum before posting comments like " But so far, I don't seem to have found exactly what is so incredibly wrong with the FBW system.", because what's wrong with it has been very very clearly discussed as I said. Regards.

Hello Richard With regard to my spelling erros, they could be maybe because english is not my mother tongue, and because I write them rahter quicky. Nevertheless I think people here can understand me and anyway I apologize for that. And yes, I know everybody makes mistakes (including me, and a lot of them in fact), but if you read my posts carefully you'll see I'm not attacking PMDG at all, nor pretending to say anything unrespectfully. As I said I've been a fan of PMDG for years and for me they are the best (I only use their aircrafts). I'm only giving my opinion about something that (in my opinion) are not doing right, which is not releasing a hotfix for the FBW issue, wich for many of us is rather important, and making us wait for months in order to use satisfactorily the product we purchased four months ago. I perfectly know that the software development process is very difficult and error-prone, no problem with that. But if there was a bug, and you have already fixed that bug (I read somewere that the FWB had been completely rewritten), I think it should have already been made available to us. I'm not trying to harm anyone... Best regards.

Because I'm a rw airline pilot and fly for a living, and before that, I used FS for years when I was a pilot wannabe, so I know what I'm talking about when the talk is about airplanes, even if in real life I do not fly one specific airplane under discussion, such as the T7 in this case.... I know I'm going to be executed for saying this but yes, I'm a super pilot and can fly the PMDG 777 with my eyes closed, but.... as Kyle would say, "Easy to fly by hand != Real Behaviour", wich is what I care the most... Don't take offense. Best regards.

At least one person who agrees with me and doesn't give me "dislikes". Thanks Erek! ^_^ I want to clarify something. I'm proud of PMDG, and what's more, I've been their customer since back in the 90's, when they only would sell manuals and hadn't even developed a software add-on yet and I was dreaming of being a professional pilot but, I respectfully think that regarding all of this, they're not doing it well, and that's my humble opinion. I know this is not exactly the same thing, but it is as if a were to go this evening to walmart to buy a full-blown last model Nosy color TV, and when I arrive home I see that the image is in black and white. I then return to walmart to complain and I'm told "yes sir, that's a known issue for Nosy. It's just a software problenm that will be fixed on next firmware, but you'll have to wait for months because the new firmware, apart form solving your problem, will incorporate new features that will be used by their latest TV model wich is still under development, and they will not release that firmware until they not have their new TV ready for sale".... What would you say?....I'd say "no sir, I have bought this color TV, and I want it to be fixed now If they have the fix already done. I don't care about their next TV wich I'm not planning to buy at the moment. I want my TV to work as it should, now, or here you have your TV and give me another one or my money". I supposed one of the main objectives of the Operations Center was precisely this, to make it easy to deliver hotfixes as thery were fixing things, and now, all of a sudden, everything has to go into a service pack which we are 4,5 months waiting for as of today. Your can call me weird, or crazy or whatever you like, but I, as in real life and when I'm able to so and SOPs permit, etc, like to hand-fly the airplane. I hand-fly the complete departure, arrival and approach if I can. With the sim I like to do the same thing, and my brain resists to fly this work of art (the PMDG 777) while coucisiously knowing that the flight control system is not working properly. I know a lot of people like to make full use the AP/FD, FMS, etc....But I'm fed up using it in real life, I like to fly and feel the aircraft by hand and in raw data even, and that's why for me the FBW is so important that keeps me form flying this airplane until is fixed, although many of you resist to understand this. If you like to fly the aircraf knowing it's faulty because you get by using AP or you put up with the current hand-flying behaviour, ok...But some of us don't think or focus the simulation the same way And keep in mind that I'm not saying that the airplane is unflyable or anything like that, beferore anyone comes here to say that. Best regards.

Hi Olli. Excuse me, but I don't see the point of this link. I don't understand what you mean... Regards.

Yes, I was already aware of that post, time ago.....so what? What Tabs says there is precisely what I don't agree with, and I'm in my right as a paying customer... For one, is has nothing to do with conspiracy theorys nor that PMDG want to screw us like he says...he is always too defensive and thinking we the customers, when we complain of something, are all thinking PMDG want to somehow screw us and things like that. NO, I'm just a customer who tell my opinion about something that is affecting me, and that if I have pruchased a product wich included a FWB simulation that is no working, then if you already fixed that, then give it to me...don't tell me you have it already fixed but I`m to wait for months just because you have decided to include it on SP wich you have also decided that you won't release until you have your next product finished because that product needs that SP... I understand that SP1 is needed for the 300 version, ok I agree But what I say is that if they have the FBW already fixed (as I saw elsewhere), release a hotfix for that, and then take all the time you want to develop the 300 and the SP1....I want my purchased 200LR with an error-free FBW system and don't want to wait for months until the 300 version is finished....is that so hard to understand? Regards.

I agree with this. For me the FBW issue is the most important one. I still cannot see why I do have to wait till they have their next selling product ready in order to have the fix for the product I already paid for...I paid for a working 200LR, don't want to wait untill you finish your next product to be able to use mine (and yes, I do not fly this aircraft until the FWB problem is working as it should)... As I have already said, if they have this problem fixed, they should have released a hotfix for this. At this moment I'm not intrested in the 300 version...I just want to have my purchased product fixed so I can use it... Regards.

Sure... Then you must be blind...Or maybe you don't have enough knowledge and/or experience to recognize them?... Or maybe the rest of us who DO have seen them are just a bunch of moaning liars...because obviously you are the most experienced and important user, and if you haven't come across ANY, then no doubt, no bug exists at all... Once said that, now I'll return my face into the mud, where it belongs... Cheers.

I'm also with Martin and Rob... Besides, I think the issue with the FWB is so critical (at least to those of us who use the this simulation in a 100% real manner), that it should have been dealed with and solved ASAP the first place and then have been released as a hotfix ASAP also. It bothers me that me (and others like me) are having to wait for months in order for PMDG to make a lot of fixes (that most of them if not all does not affect me). I respectfully think this is not fair. Thought many simmers don't think like me, this (the FWB issue) is essential for me ( and others) to fly this aircraft. I also have my T7 in the hangar after the first few days, waiting for this. I don't care about the CTD's etc...I don't have them. I understand that others have, but not everyone. Why do we have to wait in order to be able to have a complete and real behaviour of the FBW? As I said, I think this issue shoud have been fixed urgently time ago, and we should be enjoying it time ago too. I paid for a correctly woriking FBW and don't have it...I don't care about the other problems I'm not having....I'm not saying they should not be fixed of course, but If you have the FBW already fixed, the release it....I don't uderstand this way of dealing with this issue from PMDG. Cheers.

This comment puts everything regarding this issue crystal clear. Thank you very much Ryan for the update. Cheers.

There are real 777 pilots here who say it is not good. Maybe the ones who claim it is ok, have not tested thoroughly this issue and just skimmed over. There is pilot in particular, very experienced on the T7, a captain, who has carefully tested all this on the REAL airplane, and he finally stated that, as I also think, the simulation is not ok. I firmly trust what this pilot says. I'm a real pilot. I do not fly or have flown the 777. I actually fly the 737 but, with my experience as a pilot and in studing FCOMs, etc, testing the handling characteristics of the PMDG 777 I can say that PMDG does not fly as per documentation regarding this issue of FBW. The first thing I do when purchase and FSX aircraft, is to hand-fly it extensively to see how it feels and behave because I love hand-flying. I inmediately felt something was not ok. I then studied the FCOMs, everything regarding FBW, handling charateristics, etc and I concluded the FBW is not correct. Some others fellow simmers, very experienced and knowledgeable, and real pilots who love flight simulation just like me, have felt the same issue themselves and agreed there is some kind of bug here. And finally, you got it some posts upwards. PMDG became aware of this, they must have tested themselves, and finally concluded that we were right and fixes were to be carried out, and so they have, which I find fabulous....Don't we forget this is PMDG, and they are absolute professionals. If something is worng they do their best to fix it and for this one it seems it was wrong. In the same way if something is working ok though there are people who think it isn't, PMDG let them know why and authoritatively. Cheers.

Hi Rob. I was afraid you were going to confirm this... So here we have it. As the FCOM states, and many us would think after extensive testing, there is no auto-trimmig at all in the real aircraft for speed changes... We'll have to wait to see PMDG conclusions and probably a fix for this in a hotfix or SP1. Thank you very much Rob. Regards.

Hi Robin. Absolutely...I have also noticed exactly what you're saying from the very first test-flights. Correct. I foud just the same when I did my tests. As we've been commenting these days, it seems extrange. We're in the same point of view. But we will have to wait til PMDG investigates the issue and finally finally expose their conclussions. Otherwise I think we (including me) are hypothesizing wether this is a bug or what. I was astonished when Ryan said Boeing was involved in some way with the PMDG 777. Boeing is bigger words. If they are into this, apart from thinking it is marvelous, I'm very interested in what finally they, as well PMDG, conclude about this one. I'm also expectating to what 777simmer has to say about after his flight today. Regards Robin.

Hi Kevin Yes, I rectified it with an EDIT two minutes after I wrote it because I realized I typed it wrong due to typing and thinking too fast For any reason it does not shows my edited test but the orginial one. Yes, I did not want to say "disappears"...obviously, the moment is still there...I wanted to say, "it stops growing", but I perfectly know the moment is still there and is greater for at a greater thrust output. I knew this was going to happen, that any one was going to catch my error before I had time to change it :lol: Nevertheless, the two effects can be perfectly separated. They both produce their own pitching moments, and the make their individual contribution to the net effect. Cheers.

Keep in mind this two things here please: Aerodynamically, there are actually two pitching up moments. (in general and to be understandable, I simplify the actual aerodynamic process a little) One is the short term, produced by the increased thrust by the engine, wich ONLY lasts until the engines have accelerated to the new thrust setting (that its, seconds). Once the engines are at the new thrust, moment stops from increasing.This moment has to do with the engines line of thrust not being at the same line that the CG. In this case and on most if not all in all of the wing-mounted engine aircraft, the engine line of thurst is below the aircraft CG, wich produces an upward moment with thrust increases. This is the moment that the FWB tries to counteract automatically when thrust is changed. The other one is the long term one, and that we're all talking about these days and wich adds to the former one. This is produced by the tail surfaces as the airspeed increases or decreases. Once the engines have accelrated to their new greater thrust (in seconds), the airplane keeps accereating because of the thrust-drag inbalance, and as it accelerates, this increases the the tail-down force wich is the one that tries to raise the nose in order to keep trim airspeed, and this is what we must fight with forward yoke and/or trim if we want the aircraft to speed up. The more the airspeed increases, the more forward yoke is needed if we, for example, are trying to maintain a constant flight path such as level flight. Once the thurst/drag balances again, the airspeed does no longer increases and the airplane is in dynamic equilibrium at a greater speed, but at this point the tail downforce is greater and we are fighting it (to prevent the nose from going up wich is what the tails is trying to do) with the yoke, or we trim (if no done previoussly) for the stabilizer to exert the force for us....or with the PMDG 777, we wait a few seconds and the FWB trims the stabilizer for us, as we've been discussiing. ^_^ Cheers.