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Guest tmetzinger

for the real-world NG drivers

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Guest tmetzinger

is there a way to look up or display airways in the NG?I'm curious as to what you'd do without a chart if ATC gave you a vector, then told you to join an airway and gave you essentially a new route starting from the airway.For example, let's pretend you're on a clearance that has you going BUF-J61-EMI then on from there to your destinatino. 10 miles short of Philipsburg, ATC says:At Philipsburg, fly heading 220, join J211 to EMI, rest of route unchanged.With a chart, it's easy to see that intercepting a 136 course to LEONI, then direct BUSTR, then direct EMI would be what you needed, and you could set it up in the LEGS page or the RTE page.But is there any way you could have figured that out using the FMC, without a chart? or by using the ND somehow?

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Guest tmetzinger

:bump:any ideas, anyone?

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Guest ahmedem

Well Tim I won't claim to be a real world driver but I've overheard a similar (recorded) ATC coversation and in that case ATC instructed the pilot direct to a waypoint then to join an airway crossing that waypoint I can't remember exactly which one it was somewhere over Manchester, UK.It stuck in my mind because the pilot, not having english as the first language or being too familiar with UK airspace came back on the radio and asked how to spell the waypoint (I guess for entry into the CDU).So maybe in response to your query, such instructions might not come about except in the form I mentioned here.Of course I can't support this assumption but that would be my guess, hope it makes sense.

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Guest

Yes, all I've ever heard is "join XXX at YYYYY" as well, sometimes more specific as "turn XXX to join YYY at ZZZZZ".

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Guest jbB737

Chart? What's a chart? Lemme dig up my Jepp 7/8 HI enroute from the bottom of my bag...Nope, there's no way to show or look up airways on the EFIS display; the way you did it by looking it up on the chart is exactly what we do when we get a weird re-route like that. The FMC knows where J211 is, but it needs a start and end point... in this case you would start at LEONI or BUSTR with a 136 bearing inbound, then to EMI. No way to tell that from the EFIS display.Situations like this are just about the only time we actually pull the charts out... but if it's a standard airways clearance, the box knows all. Another ATC routing request that needs a chart is something like "JST J211 J64 EWC". What they want is to fly J211 northwest until it crosses J64, then turn left and track J64 to Ellwood City. Problem is, there's no "intersection" at that intersection. The FMC won't take this in the Route or Legs page since it needs an actual fix to define the turn point. In a case like this we leave out the airways and just go to the Legs page, enter JST, JST313/EWC102 (waypoint for the turn), then EWC, then J64 to points farther west. Gotta have a chart to figure that stuff out.JohnB-737 FO

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Guest boxjockey99

JohnYou must have update 10.5 with a large brain, pity us poor -300 drivers still trolling around with U5.0 and a tiny brain that has less than a quarter of the waypoints and NONE of the lower airways in it. John is of course correct, we get given a reroute we can type the re-route into the FMC route page as new airways or put in the innitial point then whip out the charts and input them all manually into the LEGS page.All the bestKris

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Guest jbB737

>You must have update 10.5 with a large brain, pity us poor>-300 drivers still trolling around with U5.0 and a tiny brain>that has less than a quarter of the waypoints and NONE of the>lower airways in it. >Yes indeed, we have 10.5 on both the NGs and the 3/500s, which is a very good thing... a few years ago our round dial 300s were running an older version software, while the EFIS 500s and NGs had a newer, smarter version. It was a bit of a pain in the butt to fly a shiny new 800 and next leg is an old 300... had to downshift gears in my head to remember how to program the older FMC. I'm so glad they decided to upgrade them...

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Guest tmetzinger

>Chart? What's a chart? Lemme dig up my Jepp 7/8 HI enroute>from the bottom of my bag...>>Nope, there's no way to show or look up airways on the EFIS>display; the way you did it by looking it up on the chart is>exactly what we do when we get a weird re-route like that. >The FMC knows where J211 is, but it needs a start and end>point... in this case you would start at LEONI or BUSTR with a>136 bearing inbound, then to EMI. No way to tell that from>the EFIS display.>>Situations like this are just about the only time we actually>pull the charts out... but if it's a standard airways>clearance, the box knows all. Another ATC routing request>that needs a chart is something like "JST J211 J64 EWC". What>they want is to fly J211 northwest until it crosses J64, then>turn left and track J64 to Ellwood City. Problem is, there's>no "intersection" at that intersection. The FMC won't take>this in the Route or Legs page since it needs an actual fix to>define the turn point. In a case like this we leave out the>airways and just go to the Legs page, enter JST, JST313/EWC102>(waypoint for the turn), then EWC, then J64 to points farther>west. Gotta have a chart to figure that stuff out.>>John>B-737 FO>Thanks, that's what I thought... I run into the same issue on the low airways sometimes - the Garmin G1000 is nice as it lets you define a waypoint as PBPB or PBD.

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Guest tmetzinger

>Chart? What's a chart? Lemme dig up my Jepp 7/8 HI enroute>from the bottom of my bag...>>Nope, there's no way to show or look up airways on the EFIS>display; the way you did it by looking it up on the chart is>exactly what we do when we get a weird re-route like that. >The FMC knows where J211 is, but it needs a start and end>point... in this case you would start at LEONI or BUSTR with a>136 bearing inbound, then to EMI. No way to tell that from>the EFIS display.>>Situations like this are just about the only time we actually>pull the charts out... but if it's a standard airways>clearance, the box knows all. Another ATC routing request>that needs a chart is something like "JST J211 J64 EWC". What>they want is to fly J211 northwest until it crosses J64, then>turn left and track J64 to Ellwood City. Problem is, there's>no "intersection" at that intersection. The FMC won't take>this in the Route or Legs page since it needs an actual fix to>define the turn point. In a case like this we leave out the>airways and just go to the Legs page, enter JST, JST313/EWC102>(waypoint for the turn), then EWC, then J64 to points farther>west. Gotta have a chart to figure that stuff out.>>John>B-737 FO>Thanks, that's what I thought... I run into the same issue on the low airways sometimes - the Garmin G1000 is nice as it lets you define a waypoint as PBPB or PBD.

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