Programming 2 SID's from same runway

[Guest jumpjet]

HiA quick query about entering 2 SIDs off the same runway. Here is my example, the ANDIK 1R and the ANDIK 1T out of runway 06 at EHAM.The basic SID is ANDIK, and I have created all it's transitions. Now comes the runway transition to the SID. So for the ANDIK 1R, it would be fixes EH014,EH068, and EH071, then it passes to ANDIK. So those 3 fixes are created in the ANDIK.06.rwy file, which is fine, but I want to add the ANDIK 1T transition to the runway. Which is EH014, EH021 and SPY. If I was to comply with convention, then this would be saved in the ANDIK.06.rwy file, thereby wiping out the details of the the first SID in this file.Is there a way around this guys? Can 2 SIDs be in the same .rwy file?There are many more ANDIK SID's BTW. Perhaps the only way to do it is create a complete ANDIK 1R with the runway, SID, and transitions, AND a ANDIK 1T, with the runway, SID, and transitions? So I would then get an ANDIK1N.wsd and ANDIK1N.06.rwy etc. and a ANDIK1T.wsd and ANDIK1T.06.rwy etc.Just by this one example, I will end up with :-ANDIK, plus transitionsANDIK1N, plus transitionsANDIK1T, plus transitionsAnyone got any better ideas?CheersGraham

[Guest Mark McG]

Graham,Just tried it out - I have a very easy solution for you:Go to www.navdata.atYou may need to register if you are not already.Look for a file called 767PIC AIO - this stands for All In One, and contains a large database of Sids and Stars.The ones you are looking for are in this file.I have loaded them up in PIC, and they work fine - in the DEP/ARR page select RWY 6. Then Select ANDIK 1R or ANDIK 1T. Then select what transition you want to use.By downloading this file, you will save the hassel of trying to create them.Later

[Guest jumpjet]

Hi MarkMany thanks for your help. You have perhaps misunderstood me slightly, as I already have a reasonable database for the PIC.The SID that I mentioned was really just an example. There are many SID at many airports, which often have a similar SID (with the same end of SID fix), but different runway transitions. So, I was just trying to find out the best way of inputting these type of SIDs into the PIC database.As for EHAM itself, with it's new operational runway, and re-designation of the old 1R, 1L and 19R, 19L, to give 36L, 36C, 36R and their recipricals, I decided to update by re-writing all the SIDs, hence I hit this problem.Cheers anyway,GrahamEDIT: PS. I had already downloaded the file you suggested from NavData a few weeks ago, but haven't installed it yet. I may try installing it now, to see if all the SIDs are there, and if they are, how they got round the problem I mentioned above. :-)

[Guest Mark McG]

Graham,the problem you described can only be done way.ANDIK 1R & ANDIK 1T are seperate SIDs.The main SID body:ANDIK 1RTHR06EH014EH068EH071ANDIKANDIK 1TTHR06EH014EH021SPYANDIKThe Transitions are:DOBAK TRNSANDIKGRONYEELDOBAKLABIL TRNSANDIKBEDUMLABILYou would also need to create a RWY file for each SIDie ANDIK1R.06.RWYThis is the way that the Sids are set up in the set from the Navdata website.This is also how they appear in the Jepp Charts I have of AMS.

[Guest jumpjet]

Thankyou Mark.I can see that now. It is the only way to do it, and can take some amount of time, especially with large airports.The database that I had installed, did not break it up in this way, so in effect I could select any ANDIK SID from EVERY runway! (I think).I have installed the one from NavData now, and all is well, including the new/re-designated runways at EHAM. Perhaps I should have done this earlier, and saved you the hassle....... lolHaving said that, I have now become fairly proficient at using the MCDU for inputting this type of navdata, and I was doing it the correct way, though it is a long-winded method.Thanks once againGraham

[Guest Mark McG]

Graham,no hassle at all. I was trying to make life a little easier for you. When I created a set of custom UK procedures earlier this year, it took me nearly a month to programme them all.

[Guest ielchitz]

Both Lee and myself spent some considerable time working on the RNAV Departures in Las Vegas 2 years back and discovered that you have to either:Create separate SID's that you can select from the left side such as:SHECK3ASHECK3BSHECK3CThe problem with this is that you can end up using the 3A departure from runway XX when it is specifically used for runway YY.So - the only way to really do it with the FMC is to use runway transitions the left side would be:SHECK3and the right side would be:Runway XXRunway YYRunway ZZThis works perfect over here in North America as the naming convention for the departures aren't structured the same as the rest of the world. So it would be impossible to create a right side where you selected the A, B, or C variation of the SID.Here's an example of the STAAV1 Departure from Las Vegas (KLAS). These are a lot of work!KLAS-STAAV1.wsdW,STAAV,,0,36.316667,-115.142778,0,0,0,7000,1,End of Terminal ProcedureKLAS-STAAV1.01L.rwyW,STRTO,,0,36.17085,-115.115639,0,0,0,0,0,End of Terminal ProcedureKLAS-STAAV1.01R.rwyW,BRENS,,0,36.169719,-115.112769,0,0,0,0,0,End of Terminal ProcedureKLAS-STAAV1.07L.rwyW,WASTE,,0,36.076422,-115.079981,0,0,0,0,0,W,DECAY,,0,36.076411,-114.997739,0,0,0,0,0,End of Terminal ProcedureKLAS-STAAV1.07R.rwyW,JESJI,,0,36.073672,-115.078536,0,0,0,0,0,W,DECAY,,0,36.076411,-114.997739,0,0,0,0,0,End of Terminal ProcedureKLAS-STAAV1.19L.rwyW,DEALR,,0,36.018986,-115.199072,0,0,0,0,0,End of Terminal ProcedureKLAS-STAAV1.19R.rwyW,NIPZO,,0,36.018567,-115.202825,0,0,0,0,0,End of Terminal ProcedureKLAS-STAAV1.25L.rwyW,EYENE,,0,36.073581,-115.202553,0,0,0,0,0,End of Terminal ProcedureKLAS-STAAV1.25R.rwyW,LODZY,,0,36.076289,-115.231869,0,0,0,0,0,End of Terminal ProcedureKLAS-STAAV1.BTY.trW,MESAE,,0,36.434167,-115.571667,0,0,0,10000,1,W,DYSSS,,0,36.616667,-116.498333,0,0,0,0,0,W,BTY,,0,36.800583,-116.747647,114.70,0,0,0,0,End of Terminal ProcedureKLAS-STAAV1.ILC.trW,ILC,,0,38.250192,-114.394228,116.30,0,0,0,0,End of Terminal ProcedureKLAS-STAAV1.MLF.trW,MLF,,0,38.360356,-113.013233,112.10,0,0,0,0,End of Terminal ProcedureKLAS-STAAV1.MMM.trW,MMM,,0,36.769278,-114.277469,114.30,0,0,0,0,End of Terminal Procedure---------------In the end it works out very well while you are sitting in the left seat. When doing your pre-flight you select your Departure and Transition. Assuming that you get to use that DP in your IFR clearance you then call for taxi and get assigned runway XX. You open your FMC and type select the runway transition XX and then your route is all set and ready to do (plus you can calculate your V speeds while you are on your way to the runway).Hope this helps.

[Guest jumpjet]

Many thanks Ian.Sorry I have taken so long to get back to you, I didn't get an email to tell me the thread had been updated. I hadn't browsed the forum again until now.CheersGraham