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[Guest Ferdie]

I just decided to tell you about a long story (I don use to write a lot) but jus thinking that others can make the same mistake as I do, I want to share my experience that may help. The story comes like this (off course all this is true as life itself with all the documentation to sponsor it): More than a year ago, I saw a message posted at the AVSIM forum (this forum), regarding a CNC cutting machine. I saw that could be helpful for my cockpit building, so got in touch with the person who sell the machine. This "Sir" kindly send me photos of the machine, and looked robust.Considering that could be useful and interesting for me and for my purposes, asked him a lot of questions about what it be capable to do and what won't, so he answers that the machine perform sharply cuts even that could perform small letter engraved, of course without the precision of a laser cutter but in very good shape. Something like that could be interesting for me, and the price, even tough high, fits in my estimated budget for a machine like this, and my purpose of buying one, so I decided to buy it. The machine price was $1,500.00 US, and the guy's name who sell it, was Mr. ROBERTO RICARDO SORIANO RAMOS (aka. DODIANO) Due to the contacts and relations with some other people in this forum, due to he is an active commercial pilot and due to the kind treatment receive from him, gives me the confidence to proceed with the business. Afther a month after payment, I receive the machine. I was surprised to proof that I bought a home made machine, more like a personal invent to cut things than a formal CNC machine. This kind of inventions we call it in Spain "Chapuzas", something informal, unprofessional, with handcrafted elements and pieces. With all mounted pieces, the gaps between them and faults in adjustments make it impossible to work properly with this machine or what ever it name could be. Off course, the real thing was very far away from the machine presented in photos. The controller was not even like the showed in photos, but it worth to be described:It is a tin box with 3 controller chips which are attached to cables through clear silicon. YES!, tons and tons of silicon filling the whole box, and the cables looks one over the other and all "showered" with this silicon. Infront of this scenario, I was terrified to try to make I work. Checked all connections and then try start the machine's controller. The thing jus wouldn't work. Call Mr Soriano to tell him that the "thing" won't work and his immediate answer was: "the machine left working properly from here, now is your problem. I send photos to you and you didn't asked if the machine was, or not, home made. At this situation, and because this guy would not admit the machine return and refund, I try to solve the problem fixing the machine as much as it can be possible. I try to clean the controller, just can't see any cable trough this silicon. Then I check all the circuits. I found out that the controller was burned. impossible to fix it. So I got in tuch again with Mr. Soriano and suggested to find a new controller if he accept to cover cost of it. Alfter a long argued because he still thought that I have made something wrong that burns the controller, so he accepted. According to this, I found a controller for this kind of motors in 165 Eurs, price that I payed and send the invoice to this person looking for a refund. I thought to build it my self but according the situation, I decided no to interfere in the electronics avoiding to be accused of the "bad health" of the machine. So I installed the new controller, prepare a new power supply and a new box so I can start to test the machine. As I thought, the so called machine was unable to perform a simple circle, due to the bad precision it has, the gaps and bad building. Even more, the controller forces the machine to stop frequently. This I consult it with the builder, sending an installation photo document. He answer after observing the photos, I just don't understand how I speck to put the machine to work due to the rust expelled from those motors, a clear indicative that in the inside, the motor most be failing for sure. After this, I just seat and wait to receive the controller money refund from Mr. Sorinao (165 eurs), buy some new motors and new guides to adjust and eliminate the gaps and adjust the machinery, so finally I can get my ever dreamed CNC machine. This payment, after asking for it month after month for a whole year, has not arrive yet. Now you think. after a $1,500 US payment, living this situation, makes sense to fight for this 165 eurs ? Well, yes it is! Makes a lot of sense. I just want to know how low a person can be, a person that claims that has "a name, honor and reputation". == Any comment or reflexion is gladly welcome == Greetings : Manuel V

[Guest Woof]

Sorry to hear about that Ferdie. I did see the original post, and although it stated that the product was sold as seen I guess you would also expect it to be 'shipped as seen' too.What goes around comes around.By the way, while I'm here, thanks for the IOCards project. Without it I wouldn't have much of a Sim. Best thing I ever did was sell my EPIC and find your website. Now if only you all spoke better English (or I spoke better Spanish) :-)Chriswww.virtual737.com

[npbosch]

Hi ManuelI bought a cnc machine from a REAL cnc hobbyist for about 1100 euros, and it works great. That man made them semiprofessional with a giant cnc machine. See the pics on my website.Sorry about your experience.I know of other people that bought a commercial one (for example Haase makes them for

[Guest Robid]

Hi Manuel,My sympathies on this difficult situation. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be.I built my own CNC and know how long it took me to get it to work well. I built it and knew where all the problem areas were so I could slowly but surely work through all the problems. As this has been homebuilt by someone else it could take forever to get it working at an acceptable level, at enourmous extra cost than what you originally paid for it.I hope it works out for you.Best regardsDavid

[Lillebe]

I am not believing what I am reading here,This hobby seems to bring all weird

[Guest PoRrEkE]

I am very sad to read this. I had multiple contact with Roberto. He seemed like a good chap. Now I read this. Very very sad indeed! And most unexpected. I hope for you you get your money back and return the machine. With that kind of money it could set you well underway building your own machine.

[Guest Dodiano]

Well time to hear the other side of the story.First of all, I don

[Guest rprather]

In all my years of knowing Roberto, nobody has ever come to me with anything negative about him. Any seller is eventually GOING to have a major issue with an order, so PLEASE PLEASE do not take this as "now I see what kind of person he is".Roberto is a VERY upstanding builder, and is responsible for MANY of the parts and technology available to builders today (more than a lot of people know). He has helped me, and many others, tremendously with building, getting parts, and has stood up for others in the face of the same circumstances. I understand both party's concern, but understand that Roberto's reputation is based on years and years of positive acheivment. Allow this incident to be isolated, and do not judge him by this.I know on eBay, if a seller has 5000 positive feedbacks, we will dig through 20 pages to find the single negative feedback they got! Please judge by the overall 99.9% positive reputation.Robert Prather

[Guest bowingic]

Hi AllI must admit to being rather disressed on reading Manuels letter.It is a real shame that two very respected members of our community have had this happen to them through an obvious series of misunderstandings and misperceptions.I have had personal dealings with Roberto and can say that he has my highest regard. For those who don't know Roberto he has made personal donations in the form of parts & panels to several projects that I know of, and is certainly not driven by the dollar. He has done this purely in his enthusiasm for other peoples projects. I'm confident he would have acted in good faith, as has Manuel at the other end. There are always difficulties with mail purchases where you can't see exactly what you are buying. We have all had that experience, and where there are language differences this makes it even harder.I am very sorry for you both that such an unfortunate incident has occured. I hope with time the wounds can healThanks to you both for your continuous support for sim building.Best Regards

[Guest PoRrEkE]

Hi Roberto,Good to have your reply here. That's why I put your nick name in the subject last time I posted. I was waiting to hear from your side.It's true that buying these sort of things is a risk. Some machines got tricks to be operated and if you don't got that in your fingers you can easely screw it up yourself. I know that if someone else would work with my sim, they could wreck it in no time cuz they don't know how it was made and how much force e.g. can be aplied maximum or how the curent must be conected.Either way, once again we see the importance of hearing both sides of the story. It was mentioned before the story from the Horizon yoke but I recall as much the 737 TQ story and the rotary encoder print story from the Photon guy.I feel that if you would refund the new controler that would be more than generous of you and any further issues with the machine should be Manuels problem. As you said, it was sold "as is" and it can be said that buying electronic equipment based on pictures .. well that's just plain ******.The intention of my previous post was more to get you to react than to chose a side on this issue. I haven't forgotten 'bout the panel I got from you. You could say that I was surprised to read this story and put your name in the subject to atract your atention to this so that you could give your thoughts.Regards,

[Guest Ferdie]

Mr. Roberto has taken advantage undoubtedly of my trust, because of not to be for this trust had not bought something of 1500 $for internet, basing me on 3 pictures where problem some is not observed in the machine, and basing me on what he tells me about their perfect operation and precision. It is in fact that betrayed trust the one that makes me feel for one it leaves stupid, and for other he forces me to denounce the matter before the rest of people that can suffer the same thing that me. As him he tells me in their messages, this it is a matter of "their word against the mine". But he knows the state in that he sent me perfectly that machine, and me you exactly the state in that I received it. To my it is not worth me that that I bought the machine "such which". That can say it him to seek protection, because what I bought "such which" it is a machine that it should work, and that he should have precision. And both questions with all security is not completed, because the machine came without working, and those looseness of the same one make impossible that never had that precision. If this gentleman had the enough dignity, it should have accepted the one I reject of the product, and if it he was acting of good faith, it would not have been playing with me month after month saying that at least the controller would restore, when after 12 months he didn't still make anything. But it is clear that for an or another reason (it can be that they deceived him when buying that machine and it returned the play finding a confident fool as me), he decided to act this way. It will be true that 99% of this man's transactions is acceptable (good, maybe 98% because they are beginning to leave new people damaged), but certainly, this it has not been it. I understand that this person is known in this world, and that according to you comment it has contributed a lot. I amn