Well, now that I got my current system up to speed for at least one more year I've been playing with the configuration tool on a dealer's website and would like to hear what you think of the following setup. Be advised, though, that nothing's set in stone yet and that I'm going to keep watching where the prices might be headed. Therefore, the following setup is rather an example of what I might want to get.First of all I believe I would keep my current Chieftec PC case and 550 W power supply as well as my CD/DVD drive and writer. However, what I'd toss in might go in the following general direction:* Athlon 64 3500+ (2.2 GHz, 512 KB L2) Winchester 939-pin - I'm kind of partial to AMD ;)* Zalman CNPS 7700 Cu CPU cooler* MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum nForce3 Ultra MS-7025 or MSI A939A SLi Platinum MS-7100-020R nForce 4 - is there a huge difference between nForce3 and 4?* 1 gigabyte of Corsair CL2.5 PC400 ValueSelect Kit 400 RAM - one gig should do for starters, since I could always add more later* Video card: good question. I'd like to go for another Radeon. What I'm not sure about is whether I should opt for a main board/video card with PCIe or AGP interface.* Hard disk: WD1600JB 160 GB 7200 rpm 8 MB plus maybe a secondary disk with something like 80 GB for safety reasons, so that I wouldn't lose all data if the primary disk failed. Depending on the main board, I might even try a RAID mirroring setup. Any particular comments about whether this might be recommendable?The above setup would put me somewhere around

Hi,CPU: AMD Athlon64 is a good choice.CPU cooler: Again, good choiceMB: I'd go with nForce4 if I were you. It just seems rather strange to knowingly buy an older generation motherboard (unless you know specifically of problems in the newer generation but that is not the case with the nForce4). If you are indeed going with nForce4 SLI, I suggest the DFI LanParty board. It's been getting rave reviews all over the Web.Video card: Go PCIe. Like the Ultra ATA/SATA question in the other post, there is currently little benefit to going PCIe but that's where the technology is headed so might as well go with it given the negligible price differential. Besides, if you buy an nForce4 SLI motherboard, it support AGP!As for NVIDIA vs. ATI, at the ultra high-end (i.e. X850XT vs. GeForce 6800 Ultra), ATI wins in most benchmarks (note most, not all). At the mid-range (6600GT vs. X800 or X700), NVIDIA is ahead.RAID: I don't know about mirroring but for gaming/everyday purposes, striping (i.e. RAID 0) is a waste of money. Contrary to popular belief, RAID 0 gives almost no performance improvement in games. And I say that rather conclusively because I used to be a believer in RAID 0 too (I am using that in my rig as I speak) and yet, benchmarks have shown that RAID 0 actually does not yield any noticeable improvement.Hope this helps.Edwin

Sorry, I meant to say the nForce4 SLI motherboard DOESN'T support AGP.Sorry about the confusion.Edwin

Thanks for your thoughts, Edwin. Let me reply to some points you made:>MB: I'd go with nForce4 if I were you. It just seems rather>strange to knowingly buy an older generation motherboard> (unless you know specifically of problems in the newer>generation but that is not the case with the nForce4).Okay. I simply didn't keep track of development in this field for some time, and in fact I didn't even know they had developed nForce4 yet :-shy . >If you are indeed going with nForce4 SLI, I suggest the DFI LanParty>board. It's been getting rave reviews all over the Web.There are several boards from that product line, as far as I can see. Would you recommend any specific variant?>As for NVIDIA vs. ATI, at the ultra high-end (i.e. X850XT vs.>GeForce 6800 Ultra), ATI wins in most benchmarks (note most,>not all). At the mid-range (6600GT vs. X800 or X700), NVIDIA>is ahead.Hmmm. I guess by the time I'll be ready for my purchase, those 850XTs will be closer to what the X800s are now.>RAID: I don't know about mirroring but for gaming/everyday>purposes, striping (i.e. RAID 0) is a waste of money. Well, as I said, I was thinking about mirroring (RAID 1, I think it was), if at all. I value reliability higher than raw performance, especially when HDs are concerned. With three HD failures under my belt - though the last one was about four years back - I think I know why I do... :( In addition, I wouldn't want to build a pure gaming system, which is another reason why stability and even noise are important criteria as well.

Hi Dominik,The hot ticket these days in DFI boards are the nF4 SLI series. Just last week (on a whim... sheesh) I changed over to the board (and video card) in my sig. Been very happy with the DFI board once I figured out it's install quirks (the biggest one being the PSU). DFI recommends 24 pin power supplies for their SLI boards, and I doubt that your current case has such a PSU. That was the problem I had with my new DFI board... wouldn't boot with my 20 pin PSU. So, I've had to order a new 24 pin PSU from PC P&C.While DFI make outstanding motherboards (with the best and most tweakable BIOS in the business), I'll point out that their products are designed, built and marketed for the serious overclocker. DFI even employs a few guys to peruse various forums to assist their customers in achieving the best possible overclocks. If you're not that interested in overclocking then perhaps a board from a manufacturer like ASUS, Abit, Gigabyte, or MSI would be a better choice.I recommend against "value" memory. For a few dollars more you can go with something that uses BH-5 or TCCD modules and see a much better gain in overclock and stability. Same goes for the PSU. Buy a good one. These are two (very important) pieces of the system that folks all too often try to save a few $ on, yet they are both terribly important to performance and reliabilty.I concur with your perspective on using a RAID set-up for redundancy. Setting up a RAID for performance yields little bang for the buck these days.Hope this helps,Greg

Thanks for your advice, Greg, especially concerning the main board.>If you're not that interested in>overclocking then perhaps a board from a manufacturer like>ASUS, Abit, Gigabyte, or MSI would be a better choice.Indeed, that's really not what I'm up to. As I said, I'm more interested in overall reliability instead of hunting for hundredths of percents in performance increases. So, when I fine-tune my rig, I do it only within the reasonable limits offered by the hardware at hand. Right now I have an original ASUS A7N8X board which served me very well, so ASUS is a brand I might consider staying with. I mean, it's ultimately all about what you feel comfortable with, no?>I concur with your perspective on using a RAID set-up for>redundancy. Setting up a RAID for performance yields little>bang for the buck these days.Are you aware of any MBs from the brands you listed which have an onboard RAID controller?

"so ASUS is a brand I might consider staying with. I mean, it's ultimately all about what you feel comfortable with, no?"Can't go wrong with ASUS. Never had a bad board from them myself (like you I had an A7N8X... actually two of them. Started with the 1.04 and then went to the 2.0. And I've owned a number of other ASUS boards before them)."Are you aware of any MBs from the brands you listed which have an onboard RAID controller?"This might be a good choice for you. nVidia RAID is preferrable to SiI... faster and more stable (not that SiI is bad... it's just that nVidia RAID is better).Greg

@ Dominik, you're getting some great advice here. I'ld only like to add that you could also get S-ATA-2 HDs for your new combo (provided it will be a nForce4 Ultra or SLi). AFAIK, Hitachi and Samsung drives are already in the shops. Apart from PCI-e, S-ATA2 is the other major step forward with nForce4 chipsets IMHO and is functional with the nForce4 SATA ports only (not the SI). @ Greg, I see you've changed your underground again. May I ask why? And also, did you see a benefit by going to PCI-e (and X800@XT --> X850)? Am I right to presume you also did it to get back to your old levels of overclocking? Sorry for bombarding you with questions... I've been thinking about crossgrading from my 754 Clawhammer to a 939/3700 San Diego too, but remain undecided for the moment. Any comment is welcome and I thank you in advance for taking your time. Good luck and kind regards Jaap

Hi Jaap,He,he... I'm usually methodical about planning my upgrades, but I made the change on a whim. Was in a big computer store one night this week and saw the DFI boards on sale, then checked to see that they also sold the VC card I wanted. I basically made the change because I wanted to try a DFI product. When all looked well I made the buy. The store has a liberal return policy, so I figured that if I wasn't happy with the whole ball of wax I'd take it back.But I'll be hanging on to it all.I really like the DFI boards. They're an overclocker's dream come true. The MSI was good, but this board is definately better. Great BIOS (kind of took be aback the first time I went into the DRAM settings page. Wow, so many settings to make overclocking nicely flexible). I'm running at basically the same PR I attained with the MSI, but I can get a much higher FSB with the DFI (268 vs. 238) than with the MSI. That's running the memory 1:1 2.5,4,4,11 (on both motherboards). Another thing I like about DFI is that they actually pay some of their folks to take part in net forums with the purpose of helping their customers overclock! How many board manufacturers do that?! The only complaint I have is that the hard copy manual in the box is absolutely useless. However, they're online PDF's are pretty good.The VC seems fine, though I still haven't loaded FS onto the system at this time (gotta set aside a big chunk of time for that install... you know how it is). That's the only downside to the new rig... the PCIe card was over $500US, and I had to think about giving up my previous card (X800Pro softmodded to XT-PE). It was a great card and will remain in the family for a couple years at least. Since my wife gave it to me for a birthday gift last summeer she has already made claim to it for her system.The San Diego's are certainly the way to go. Nice having that extra cache on board. As far as changing from the 754, I've never owned a 754 so I can't be of much help to you. I will say that the 90nm cores run cooler and offer better overclocking than the 130nm fellows. And of course the 939's offer Dual Channel support (for what that's worth, but if you have DC capable memory you can use it to it's fullest). Plus their price point is very consumer friendly.The downside is that changing over to PCIe ain't cheap! Most board manufacturers recommend (or require) a 24 pin PSU, so that's another expense you might have to factor into the equation. And then there's the cost of the VC... jeez, the manufacturers are putting the squeeze on us geeks!Cheers,Greg

Hi Greg, thanks a lot for the great write up. Perhaps I should have guessed you could not make any statements with regard to FS yet? I mean, knowing the manner you meticulously build-up a new system... Nevertheless, I'm curious to learn about your conclusions and eventual differences between your 'old' nF3 and new nF4 once you're done. And be assured I'll ask again at a given moment! AIM, I'm really undecided whether to give my current 754 FlyTendo another -display adapter- upgrade (to a x800pro), or whether it's worthwile to already invest into a 939 too... I've been using this combo for ca. 14 months now (apart from a couple of mainboard changes) and must say I'm pretty happy. But being a tinkerer... Well, you know how it goes! Hehe Out of curiousity, are you intending to try xp64 too? I don't know about your soundcard, but most of your other components already have (first class) 64-bit support. Thanks again, Greg, good luck and kind regards Jaap

Hi Jaap,"Out of curiousity, are you intending to try xp64 too? I don't know about your soundcard, but most of your other components already have (first class) 64-bit support."Hmmm... give up my Santa Cruz?? That's gonna be tough. It's almost like a family member.I think I'll let the dust settle on the 64-bit OS for a while. I didn't upgrade to XP until they came out with SP1. Then I'll probably give M-Audio a try and go to the 64-bit at the same time.Cheers,Greg

>>I think I'll let the dust settle on the 64-bit OS for a while. I didn't upgrade to XP until they came out with SP1. Then I'll probably give M-Audio a try and go to the 64-bit at the same time.< totally stable. And for my offline environment it's great. I would be reluctant to use it online because AV sw is hardly available and maliciuos code works just as 'well' on xp64 as it does on the 32-bit version (because of WoW). My biggest technical problem with xp64 is my gameport equipment which I hope to replace soon. On a side note Greg, Wednesday, I helped somebody assemble a 939-3000 with a X800 card and was pretty impressed. The only problem: The mainboard doesn't properly recognize the Venice CPU (guess this requires a bios update) and sowith Cool 'n Quiet didn't install. The mainboard was the simple nForce4, a 3000 Venice CPU, 1GB of RAM and a HIS X800 IceQ (non-pro, non SE) display adapter. It costed the man slightly over 600$ and is virtually silent (after replacing the standard AMD fan). Talking about 'budget' upgrades... The result; I'll definitely go for PCI-e as well once I get back from Holland in ca. 2-3 weeks. Cheers, good luck and kind regards Jaap

Sorry haven't read the rest of the posts, but my advice is don't buy the Zalman cooler, buy the Thermalright XP-120. Lighter, quieter and cooler.Regards,

Oh, just have to add one more thing. The Nvidia Sata controller is faster than the SI controller BUT if you care about overclocking you will have to use the SI because the Nvidia controller can't be locked so it overclocks with the rest of the system. On my setup I only had cold boot issues before switching to the SI but people have even reported HD corruption with the NVIDIA controller.Regards,