Hi all,I'm currently flying FSX with a Logitech Force 3D Pro joystick, and I'm not finding it all that great. It's a force-feedback joystick in case you weren't aware, so it doesn't have a true centering spring, instead relying on little motors/servos/whatever to keep it centered and generally control it.My problem is this: I find it to be a very twitchy/jumpy stick. This can be seen by simply going to game controllers (in the control panel) and viewing it's properties. You can see various displays for things such as centering. It has issues staying dead centre, and trying to move it gently and smoothly in any direction will often make the little marker in this display twitch/jump, seemingly worse at the centre point, and worse if you try to do things smoothly and gently.This seems to carry through into FSX where I find it quite hard to control the pitch (and indeed other controls) in spite of various tweaks to aircraft files and controller settings. I need to have massive dead zones, and I find that the smallest of movements to try to tweak my planes pitch results in a much larger 'jump' then I want, with the end result that my plane is forever pitching up and down if I try to fly straight and level without trimming. I thought that in theory I should be able to maintain various angles of pitch or straight and level with just the stick (though obviously for proper flight you would trim to make life easy for yourself). Landing the plane can be a chore because if I want to tweak my pitch again I will jump up, then down, then up, then down trying to change the pitch my the slightest of movements.As this is spoiling my enjoyment I had though that maybe a non force feedback joystick with a proper spring might be a bit better behaved, or a proper yoke might be an idea as it to should be better behaved and in theory, more realistic.So I'd kind of considered the following two:1) Saitek X52 Flight control system: (Joystick + Throttle)http://www.fspilotshop.com/product_info.ph...&products_id=61Looks sexy, is supposed to be quite good, can get pedals for it later if I want to.2) CH Flight Sim Yoke (USB)http://www.fspilotshop.com/product_info.ph...&products_id=64I think this is quite a popular yoke, and more affordable than many others. It can also be used for throttle, and pedals can also added later.Now I am not necessarily going to buy them from the store I linked to. I need to get them either in or to NZ so we'll see where I go.The question: SHOULD I BUY A YOKE OR A JOYSTICK?(You may mention alternates to the two products I listed if you wish.)My thoughts so far is that the X52 joystick is sexier looking, with more functions etc, however most planes don't have a joystick (I think). The CH Yoke is more realistic, though does that make it more fun? and the catch I can see with it is no rudder function at all, wheras the joystick can twist for rudder. (though I do fly with auto rudder, however the twist rudder does seem to help with taxing). I also don't fly often enough to justify spending a lot of money on everything (so may never get pedals, or not for a long time).As you can see I don't know which way to go and so would like some advice from you knowledgable people!

I have both! I also have rudder pedals. I like them both, and each has its pluses and minuses, but I find myself using the yoke a LOT more than the joystick. Here is what I've found:The X-52 is pretty nice, but there is one thing I HATE about the thing; it moves very smoothly until you hold it in one place for a moment. Then, when you try to make a VERY subtle movement in any direction, it JERKS. Not severely, but enough to make a fine adjustment nearly impossible. After doing a LOT of investigation I discovered that this is caused by the way the handle is physically in contact with a small plastic dish at its base. Ironically, this plastic dish is there to help dampen the effect of the spring that gives you some resistance.I tried putting a small amount of WD-40 on a cloth and wiping that on the plastic dish, and that seemed to help for about 2 seconds. Then it went right back to that little jerking motion.Is it usable? Yes. This is one of those little idiosyncracies of a device that you can get used to, but for me it took some time.The joystick is programmable, and it's really easy to do that within pretty much any flight sim you use. The throttle is also fairly smooth. Overall, I really do like the X52, slight jerkiness and all.However, I like the CH Yoke better. It really does feel different, and if you've been using a stick before, you may have some difficulty switching to the yoke. I can't describe why, but it really works differently and has a different feel. The centering spring is pretty strong, and even this controller has some SLIGHT stickiness on occasions, but not bad at all. The thing I like the best is the throttle, prop control and mixture control. They are very smooth and they make flying much easier (for me). The built in trim control (something CH seems to be very proud of) is a joke. It's WAY too coarse, and centering it is difficult.The down side to this controller for me is this; CH for some reason decided to use a LAME method for securing the thing to your desk surface. Two little plastic C-clamps didn't cut it for me. Also, my desk surface is thin, so the clamps wouldn't even close down on it. I had to put a book under the yoke so the clamps would even close. Then, one of the clamps froze in place, and it won't move now. I have since rigged the clamps with vise grips to hold the yoke in place. BOOO to CH for that clamping device.In the end, owning both, I use the yoke a lot more (now that I've figured out how to secure it to the desk).Either controller is a good one, I just like the yoke better.Whichever you choose, get some rudder pedals! They also change the flight sim experience, and combined with my IRTracker 4, simming is now VERY realistic (yes, I used to fly in the real world). Good luck!

Then, when you try to make a VERY subtle>movement in any direction, it JERKS. Not severely, but enough>to make a fine adjustment nearly impossible.This, THIS, is EXACTLY the kind of issue that gets me! x(It is fine in games such as X3 where you are flying all over the place and never trying to hold an exact heading, but drives me nuts whenever I try to make a very subtle movement in FSX! Hence why I would have no problem recommending my joystick to people who play games like X3, but would look elsewhere for FSX. Now I am sure the X52 is better than mine, but by the sounds of things trying one out would be better than buying one outright... Though I don't know how to do that in NZ :-) So far as far as THIS ISSUE is concerned I guess the yoke is a little better.

My wife gave me the CH yoke for Christmas and I'd definitely recommend it (even without the pedals)! I had been using joysticks for FS for since ver. 5 and now wish I had switched long ago. I was immediately surprised at the difference it makes. I haven't had any of the "sticky" problems some other people in the forums have had but I can relate to the clamp problems which thriller1 talked about. Mine didn't break but I did have to use some cardboard as spacers. Minor issue though. I like the elevator trim wheel even though it is a bit touchy. Also, you actually can control the rudder with the rocker switch on the right-side grip but I'm sure it is not as effective as the pedals. I might get the pedals in the future (maybe after the TrackIR) but am completely satisfied with the yoke straight out of the box. One last thing: IMO, it is not the best method for flying helos so keep that joystick close by if you want to hover around sometime.