I've downloaded the binaries from http://flightgear.stockill.org.uk/ and got fgfs working from the commandline using .fgfsrcSome problems:-1. I've tried fgrun 0.4.8 but the aircraft and airport lists don't show, even though the paths etc. are set up correctly. Any ideas?2. I have a multiscreen config and wish to make use of --view-offset, but I always get a "straight ahead" view on startup regardless of a supplied angle parameter (LEFT, RIGHT or angle in degress). Does this function work yet?3. I have the sound system working and can hear ATC Chatter etc. I'm working through the tutorial to convert on-screen text messages to speech using festival. Festival/mbrola works outside of FG. The appropriate sections of the properties file have been edited and the commandline flag --prop:/sim/sound/voices/enabled=true is used. fgfs appears to be trying to contact /dev/dsp but fails. Not sure if this is a problem with communication between fgfs and the festival server.Any help or pointers would be appreciated. Thanks.

>1. I've tried fgrun 0.4.8 but the aircraft and airport lists>don't show, even though the paths etc. are set up correctly.how do you know that?what EXACTLY are the paths?>Any ideas?If you don't provide the relevant background info, we'll have to guess, so you might want to check out the following page:http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/flight_gear/h...you?wpid=247004In in this context we are particularly interested in your FlightGear base package directory (i.e. FG_ROOT).Apart from that, please also note that fgrun has its own mailing list, where people are more likely to be able to help you with non-trivial issues.Also, please don't assume that you have in fact set up everything correctly, while this may in fact be the case, it is crucial to verify your information, preferably backed up by hard facts and if necessary also screenshots.>2. I have a multiscreen config and wish to make use of>--view-offset, but I always get a "straight ahead" view on>startup regardless of a supplied angle parameter (LEFT, RIGHT>or angle in degress). Does this function work yet?last time I checked, it did work properly. But again: without knowing details about your setup, it is pretty much impossible to track down any issues you may have. So please try to provide all available information about your setup.>3. I have the sound system working and can hear ATC Chatter>etc. I'm working through the tutorial to convert on-screen>text messages to speech using festival. Festival/mbrola works>outside of FG. On the same machine or on a dedicated machine?>The appropriate sections of the properties file>have been edited and the commandline flag>--prop:/sim/sound/voices/enabled=true is used. fgfs appears to>be trying to contact /dev/dsp but fails. Not sure if this is a>problem with communication between fgfs and the festival>server.Well, this is again pretty limited information, so we can only guess: it seems as if two applications are trying to access the same sound output device, so are you sure that you have full duplex sound support? That is, are you able to access the sound device while it is being used by another process? (i.e. are you able to listen to an MP3 file while watching a video?)

Woa, did I do wrong to ask?I'm so sorry I was so brief and failed to give all the relevant info. I kinda thought that since flightgear actually works for me from the command line, most of the underlying stuff in my set up is ok.>>1. I've tried fgrun 0.4.8 but the aircraft and airport>lists>>don't show, even though the paths etc. are set up correctly.>>how do you know that?>what EXACTLY are the paths?Slackware uses /usr/share/Flightgear with various binaries in /usr/bin (which is in the users PATH environment variable).Remember, in this case, fgfs works - so does fgrun look somewhere else to find its stuff? Does it behave differently from a working fgfs? Is the airport cache file corrupted? Is there an aircraft cache file that needs fixing?>http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/flight_gear/h...you?wpid=247004Been there and seen that.Would it really help to know its a Pentium III 700 with 0.5GB RAM, nVidia card and a dirty great fast SCSI disk running a tried and tested Slackware 10.1, and has happily worked since 0.9.6? (See, I've made you laugh now.) Would it help to know this is networked to 4 other almost identical hosts in a cockpit layout? (It may be old hardware but it pushes out 30fps just the ticket - even faster if you've got a covering of snow on the landscape!) Would it make a difference to know that I use the Synergy software KVM to control the cluster?>Apart from that, please also note that fgrun has its own>mailing list, where people are more likely to be able to help>you with non-trivial issues.Not trivial to me. I really would like to crack this. Sure, I can take my problem there too, but, hey, isn't the AVSIM forum for us to help each other regardless of specific need? Maybe there's someone else out there struggling on their own and they'll be encouraged to see that even the people doing the advanced stuff hit walls occasionally.>Also, please don't assume that you have in fact set up>everything correctly, while this may in fact be the case, it>is crucial to verify your information, preferably backed up by>hard facts and if necessary also screenshots.I can show you screenshots of the 0.4.8 fgrun opening screen with the default paths (which are correct for my set up), followed by the aircraft section (which is of course blank) and the airport section (which of course is also blank - the reason for my original question) and the subsequent screens, including the advanced screen, which also has all the correct stuff. Would that help?>>2. I have a multiscreen config and wish to make use of>>--view-offset, but I always get a "straight ahead" view on>>startup regardless of a supplied angle parameter (LEFT,>RIGHT>>or angle in degress). Does this function work yet?>>last time I checked, it did work properly. But again: without>knowing details about your setup, it is pretty much impossible>to track down any issues you may have. So please try to>provide all available information about your setup.Please could you suggest what more you would need to know. Are we talking about going back to the source code to solve this one? Other parameters for aircraft, airport, fov, etc. seem ok. I think I need to try harder to work this one out for myself - errm... angle in radians? Nope - bad guess.>>3. I have the sound system working and can hear ATC Chatter>>etc. I'm working through the tutorial to convert on-screen>>text messages to speech using festival. Festival/mbrola>works>>outside of FG. >On the same machine or on a dedicated machine?Doh! On the *same* machine.>>The appropriate sections of the properties file>>have been edited and the commandline flag>>--prop:/sim/sound/voices/enabled=true is used. fgfs appears>to>>be trying to contact /dev/dsp but fails. Not sure if this is>a>>problem with communication between fgfs and the festival>>server.>>Well, this is again pretty limited information, so we can only>guess:I'm starting to think there may be a message here - do you need more info?>it seems as if two applications are trying to access>the same sound output device, so are you sure that you have>full duplex sound support? That is, are you able to access the>sound device while it is being used by another process? (i.e.>are you able to listen to an MP3 file while watching a>video?)Ah! good answer. Now that sounds like a helpful pointer! (pun intended). I've no idea how to check whether I have full duplex sound support but I'm sure I'll get help in cracking this bit.(293+ postings and a withheld profile. Hmm.)

>Woa, did I do wrong to ask?nope, certainly not.But it is generally pretty helpful to provide a maximum amount of background information, if you don't do that, the people who might be willing to ask you will either have to ask many questions, or simply resort to making assumptions and guesses.Likewise, it is not necessarily helpful if people who are reporting issues make assumptions about certain settings being "definitely correct", simply because this results usually in intentionally ommitting certain data/info.>I'm so sorry I was so brief and failed to give all the>relevant info. I kinda thought that since flightgear actually>works for me from the command line, most of the underlying>stuff in my set up is ok.again, this may in fact be the case. However, we don't have access to your machine, so we don't know what exactly you have set up or not.That is, we need a good amount of information to get an understanding how things are set up on your system, and what exactly seems to work and what doesn't.For example, you said FG would work without problems directly from the console, this is GOOD-but it would have been helpful to tell us more about the relevant directories/environment variables so that we can cross check that info with the data that you provided to fgrun, which obviously didn't work as expected.Likewise, it would have been a good idea to report any console errors or warning messages you might get to see from running fgrun directly from a console.>Slackware uses /usr/share/Flightgear with various binaries in>/usr/bin (which is in the users PATH environment variable).>>Remember, in this case, fgfs works - so does fgrun look>somewhere else to find its stuff?yes and no: fgrun isn't actually aware of the FG defaults or its environment variables, rather it needs to be set up explicitly.That is exactly the reason why I asked for the corresponding data, that is the real folders, as well as the entries that you made in the fgrun wizard.>Does it behave differently from a working fgfs?There isn't any sort of real communication going on between fgrun and fgfs, so neither of the two programs is necessarily aware of the stuff that you set up for the other one.That's also the reason why you have to set up fgrun separately.>Is the airport cache file corrupted?you should be able to check that file out by looking into~/.fltk/flightgear.org/fgrun/airports.txtif it doesn't look right, you can simply have the file recreated by deleting the cache on fgrun's first wizard page.>Is there an aircraft cache file that needs fixing?nope, currently I still assume that fgrun is simply not aware of the right FG_ROOT location.>Would it really help to know its a Pentium III 700 with 0.5GB>RAM, nVidia card and a dirty great fast SCSI disk running a>tried and tested Slackware 10.1, and has happily worked since>0.9.6? (See, I've made you laugh now.) Would it help to know>this is networked to 4 other almost identical hosts in a>cockpit layout? (It may be old hardware but it pushes out>30fps just the ticket - even faster if you've got a covering>of snow on the landscape!) Would it make a difference to know>that I use the Synergy software KVM to control the cluster?nope, not directly:as I mentioned originally on that page, we may in fact be asking for seemingly irrelevant information, simply because most of the data is in fact only relevant in certain contexts, nevertheless some of the information we ask for is generally useful in most situations. For example, console output (errors/warnings), paths, startup parameters, default settings, runtime settings etc.>Not trivial to me. I really would like to crack this. >Sure, Ican take my problem there too, but, hey, isn't the AVSIM>forum for us to help each other regardless of specific need?certainly true, but if you check out a few older threads you'll notice that there are not many people on this forum who actually try to provide support regularly. The number of people who come here to OBTAIN help is much larger than the number of people who are willing to, as well as able to provide some basic support.That's the reason why I frequently bring up the mailing lists, simply because that's the official way for requesting and providing support, with hundreds of people subscribed to these lists, your odds of actually getting support are definitely much better, even with rare issues.>Maybe there's someone else out there struggling on their own>and they'll be encouraged to see that even the people doing>the advanced stuff hit walls occasionally.Maybe, not sure about that. Anyway, the point is that most of the "advanced stuff" like you say, is usually best dealt with on the mailing lists.>I can show you screenshots of the 0.4.8 fgrun opening screen>with the default paths (which are correct for my set up),>followed by the aircraft section (which is of course blank)>and the airport section (which of course is also blank - the>reason for my original question) and the subsequent screens,>including the advanced screen, which also has all the correct>stuff. Would that help?not sure, it certainly depends on what exactly can be seen.Anyway, what would certainly be helpful to see would be any output that you may get when running fgrun from a console, however you don't have to make a screenshot to provide this.>Please could you suggest what more you would need to know. Are>we talking about going back to the source code to solve this>one?no, I don't think so right now.I was merely asking for the settings (startup, defaults, runtime) that you provide to fgfs, so that we can try to make sense of what exactly may be the problem. Indeed, some parameters are conflicting with each other, or you need to pass them in a specific order to have them work properly. These are subtleties that may in fact be non-trivial to debug.>Other parameters for aircraft, airport, fov, etc. seem>ok. I think I need to try harder to work this one out for>myself - errm... angle in radians? Nope - bad guess.Please don't get me wrong, but it is really hard to provide any help without knowing anything (preferably EVERYTHING) about the settings that you use.So, even if you should decide to post this to the FG mailing lists, make sure to provide this sort of information. Without meaning to sound rude, but: for some people it's getting old to keep repeating the same old questions, only in order to get some basic information from users that have issues settings up FG.Unfortunately, the most competent folks are usually also the ones who have the least amount of time to spend on such things.So, you can increase your odds of actually getting helpful replies if you provide all information right from the beginning.I know this may be annoying, but nevertheless it is important to realize that it can also be annoying to do the FULL "Q&A game" for each support request, simply because users fail to provide even the most fundamental data.>>On the same machine or on a dedicated machine?>>Doh! On the *same* machine.This is exactly such a situation where you have to ask for all the details, because everything else you say may be wrong otherwise.>Ah! good answer.it's more speculation than a full answer, simply because I had to resort to guessing, due to the lack of information if you remember ;-)>Now that sounds like a helpful pointer! (pun>intended). I've no idea how to check whether I have full>duplex sound support but I'm sure I'll get help in cracking>this bit.for starters, do as I suggested: try to run multiple sound applications simultaneously and see if they still work (i.e. full sound output regardless of application).

>Some problems:->>1. I've tried fgrun 0.4.8 but the aircraft and airport lists>don't show, even though the paths etc. are set up correctly.>Any ideas?This is a problem with fltk 1.1.7. fltk 1.1.6 works fine.Check http://flightgear.stockill.org.uk/ for a new version of the package.Alternatively, there are other slackware packages for flightgear and fgrun on http://linuxpackages.net/

Excellent answer. Short, to the point, no clutter. Many thanks.>>I've tried fgrun 0.4.8 but the aircraft and airport lists>>don't show, even though the paths etc. are set up correctly.>>Any ideas?>>This is a problem with fltk 1.1.7. fltk 1.1.6 works fine.>Check http://flightgear.stockill.org.uk/ for a new version of>the package.>>Alternatively, there are other slackware packages for>flightgear and fgrun on http://linuxpackages.net/>

>>I'm so sorry I was so brief and failed to give all the>>relevant info. I kinda thought that since flightgear>actually>>works for me from the command line, most of the underlying>>stuff in my set up is ok.>>again, this may in fact be the case. However, *we* don't have>access to your machine, so *we* don't know what exactly you have>set up or not.Maybe if I had an idea as to the "we" I am corresponding with I might be more confident about elaborating.>>Slackware uses /usr/share/Flightgear with various binaries>in>>/usr/bin (which is in the users PATH environment variable).>>>>Remember, in this case, fgfs works - so does fgrun look>>somewhere else to find its stuff?Done on this one - thanks fredb.Regarding --view-offset not working:->>Please could you suggest what more you would need to know.>Are>>we talking about going back to the source code to solve this>>one?>>no, I don't think so right now.>I was merely asking for the settings (startup, defaults,>runtime) that you provide to fgfs, so that we can try to make>sense of what exactly may be the problem. Indeed, some>parameters are conflicting with each other, or you need to>pass them in a specific order to have them work properly.>These are subtleties that may in fact be non-trivial to>debug.Well, if parameter order matters and, as you said, it worked for you, maybe a sample .fgfsrc could help here. BTW *is* there a suggested order for parameters, otherwise it's a lot of guesswork/perms required to crack it?Regarding festival (text-to-speech of ATC messages) etc:->for starters, do as I suggested: try to run multiple sound>applications simultaneously and see if they still work (i.e.>full sound output regardless of application).This is a slackware sound conf issue - not relevant here except the FGFS tutorial notes didn't initially make we aware that this might be something to check or a potential problem. (It would have been useful to know which sound device(s) fgfs is likely to be using already.) Sorry for wasting everyones time. (Sorting it elsewhere.)Vaguely curious:hfitz? 295 posts?ERROR: No such user profileThe user has disabled his/her user profile.

Summary of responses.(Note: thanks to all the private responses. All I can say is:- don't be put of by flame throwers - post anyway. The answers I summarise here could have been directly posted!)>1. I've tried fgrun 0.4.8 but the aircraft and airport lists>don't show, even though the paths etc. are set up correctly.>Any ideas?Stick with 0.4.6 - there are issues with later versions of fltk(thanks again fredb). (I'm now using shell scripts and .fgfsrc to fire up the sim.)>2. I have a multiscreen config and wish to make use of>--view-offset, but I always get a "straight ahead" view on>startup regardless of a supplied angle parameter (LEFT, RIGHT>or angle in degress). Does this function work yet?Use --prop: in an fgfsrc file! It's useful for loads of pre-settings.From Getting Started Version 0.8 April 5, 2006 for version 0.9.10:-5.4 Multiple Displays5.4.3 Advanced ConfigurationFor slave computers displaying side-views, use the following options.e.g. --fov=35 --prop:/sim/view/config/heading-offset-deg=-35 # (+/-fov setting)--prop:/sim/view/config/pitch-offset-deg=3>3. I have the sound system working and can hear ATC Chatter>etc. I'm working through the tutorial to convert on-screen>text messages to speech using festival. Festival/mbrola works>outside of FG. The appropriate sections of the properties file>have been edited and the commandline flag>--prop:/sim/sound/voices/enabled=true is used. fgfs appears to>be trying to contact /dev/dsp but fails. Not sure if this is a>problem with communication between fgfs and the festival>server.This is an issue with my slackware settings. When I figure it out I'll try and let you know how I fixed it.

> Excellent answer. Short, to the point, no clutter. Many thanks.MickC, you seem to appreciate clear and concise replies, so let me try to be very clear and concise now:> All I can say is:- don't be put of by flame throwers - post anyway.While you are probably surprised now, I fully agree with your sentiment: When people -like me- are asking other users -like you- for additional information, or more specifically: when it is made (very!) clear that crucial information is missing in order to provide support, these people are not trying to "throw flames" or more generally, not trying to offend people. Rather, we are trying to simplify the process of enabling other people to provide exactly the sort of information that is required to be able to provide support (efficiently) to THEM. Even moreso, much of this information could usually have been provided in the first place, at least with some common sense applied-this is also why you may occassionally notice some impatience in various discussions.Admittedly, in some of my replies I may have in fact appeared sort of "blunt" (though, not necessarily in the ones to you,IMHO), however this is usually indeed because of questions that simply cannot be properly answered, neither directly nor indirectly: poor questions! This is exactly the reason for asking for background information: We don't mind getting back to such threads, however it should be allowed to expect the original posters to also not mind getting back with the information that they were asked for. While we may occassionally in fact be asking for irrelevant information, even irrelevant information can be helpful to exclude potential problem sources. So please, rather than questioning a request, why not simply follow it for the sake of finding a solution?I apologize if some of my replies seem to have put some people off occassionally. This was certainly never my intention. On the other hand, try to switch perspectives and you might see the merits in a more factual approach towards problem solving.While I am not sure about your professional background or even your age in the first place, I can reassure you that I have personally also been on the giving- as well as on the receiving end in the past, there are simply certain rules and conventions that you should preferably adhere to if you are participating in internet discussions (usenet/mailing lists/forums), like i.e. "read the docs", "check the FAQs", "search the archives", "follow the netiquette", "comply with requests" etc.Of course this is also about different personality types that may in fact have a tendendy towards clashing more often.If you are new to this, it is quite normal to initially hit the wall at full speed some times -so that you wonder what exactly you might have done wrong, while you may in fact haven't done anything that would be considered wrong in real life.Nevertheless, while such occassions may in fact make more sensitive people feel very uncomfortable or upset, these are rarely meant really the way they may be perceived (in extreme cases).So, it is crucial to realize that internet discussions take usually place in a volunteer-setting, that is nobody has any obligations to participate in these discussions-you will NOT be treated like a client or customer, you will be treatedly HONESTLY, people are participating out of PERSONAL motives without any sort of reimbursement, nevertheless time is still precious. Thus, one of the worst things you can do during internet discussions is wasting the time of others (discussion participants), that is people WILL be HONEST with you!.Meaning, if you are truly interested in getting constructive replies, you should ensure that you are following the rules-which often have an emphasis on efficient communications, asking questions that are neither self-contained, nor complete or possibly even incomprehensible altogether doesn't help much.And this is really not at all specific to FlightGear specific issues.Hence, this is simply not the time to question requests of people who are likely to be much more familiar with a corresponding problem domain if you are looking for competent support, you better play their game or don't play at all. So, don't hate the player, hate the game.Otherwise, it feds up those people who are dedicating their spare time and expertise trying to provide support.While I did in fact appreciate some of the humor in your previous replies, I would have appreciated it even more if you had simply provided what you were asked for, hopefully putting me finally into the position to be able to provide help. If however people prefer to start trolling around instead, they can usually be sure to be ignored eventually.In retrospect, I have personally also received some of the most competent replies during internet discussions with some of the most impolite b.a.s.t.a.r.d.s on this planet. Nevertheless these folks knew their stuff and you gotta realize that it's some sort of system that works best when all wheels are turning smoothly-without interruption.So, while the tone and communications style in general may sometimes leave a lot to be desired, you have to weigh the pros & cons of pointing this out in a setting where you may in fact cause more harm than good, especially if you aren't willing to fill any gaps you might possibly create if you should actually manage to make your case.(If you don't like it, you can always say to yourself that such folks are incredibly sick and poor people, often suffering from some sort of Asperger's syndrome...)Also, you might actually find the following link VERY enlightening:http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html> The answers I summarise here could have been directly posted!)Let me comment on this one, too: Without doubt there's a "direct answer" to pretty much most questions here, however only certain (FEW!) people will be able to provide such "direct" answers to poor/insufficient questions, simply because these are highly specific issues that require a certain background and/or experience. That is, as a user you simply cannot provide competent support if you don't have a certain amount of information or alternatively the corresponding background/experience that makes up for a lack of information. For example, while you probably didn't even notice it, the reply you obtained from the user "fredb" was in fact not a normal reply (in that it came simply from another user) rather this very reply came from the maintainer and key-developer of the fgrun/fgsd projects, as well as a significant long-term contributor of the FlightGear project as a whole-so, as the maintainer and developer of the fgrun project, he is intimately familiar with the application, and thus also much more likely to be able to diagnose and analyze even an ill-defined problem (which also goes to show how appropriate it would have been to post this to the fgrun mailing list directly, but it also shows that you could have simply provided your FLTK version info, too!) Likewise, there are people (like you and me) who may also be able to provide support for even poor inquiries due to their own background and/or experiences in certain situations.However, users who don't have the corresponding background or experience for any poorly described problem , are simply unable to make sense of a question if they aren't provided with more background information.Thus, providing such information can be essential to enable other users to provide support, thereby increasing the pool of potential supporters, as well as increasing your odds of actually getting competent support in the end.So, I hope we can agree that as a help-seeking user you should be endeavoured to define and describe your problem as well as possible, this is the only way to ensure that you actually expose your inquiry to a maximum amount of potential supporters. In particular, if your problem seems highly specific!I hope this clarifies your flawed point about "poor, but directly answerable questions".While I do indeed seriously appreciate the fact that you are coming back here to provide the solutions that apparently worked for your specific problems, I doubt whether you actually realize that there's a whole multitude of potential underlying reasons for any given problem (yes, this applies even for the non-ill-defined ones!). So you are posting from the perspective of someone who is needing support, rather than from the perspective of someone who is providing support. That is, ultimately it is hard to put your points into perspective as you lack obviously the necessary experience to talk from both points of view (otherwise, I am sure your postings would look differently).So, I honestly hope you'll stick around in order to provide exactly the type of support that you obviously not only appreciate, but also seem to expect from others. I am confident you'll be able to set and maintain high standards! You repeatedly mentioned my post count: So, I suggest we'll talk again about this matter when you've posted another 290 postings while actually trying to help a bunch of FG users, until then I will eagerly watch you provide support to other users and will adjust my own style accordingly.Looking forward to see your participation- and thanks for providing this exciting opportunity to refine my people skills! :-)(Bottom line being: better don't complain if you aren't willing to be a part of the solution!)PS:The thing about private messages is: they are private and they are usually a double-edged sword because you don't get to see that there are in fact people who are supportive of either party.