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Guest sgreenwood

Question Regarding Real Scene

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I have Eddie Denney's Real Scene installed and have had for quite some time. At various places, the tarmac fades in and out in polygon shapes. The default concrete texture just disappears as you are taxiing about. However, a little slight elevation (as in spot view) and it re-appears. This phenomenon doesn't seem to exist in the default out of the box installation for FS2002 (at least that I've found).Anyone else with Real Scene had this problem? I checked the VMAX website for a patch but there's not one. What about the FSGenesis product? Anyone have this type problem with that scenery? Is the FSGenesis product worth replacing the Real Scene I have?BobL

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Hi Bob,>The default concrete texture just disappears as you are taxiing about.This does happen with the default mesh as well. Search the File Library for aprnfix9.zip for patches for many airports. I have a brief discussion of the problem and a simple "toolkit" you can download to make your own patches for other airports. Available at:www.fs-traveler.com/flatten.htmlFSGenesis and I both offer mesh for the mainland US constructed from 30m source data. I believe most of the RealScene mesh was constructed from 3-arcsec (~100m) data and so is less accurate. Our products will not solve your original problem, but if you are interested in high quality, high resolution mesh, I encourage you to download 30m mesh samples available from both sites and compare them with your current mesh. Suggestion: To see more detail when using high resolution mesh constructed using 30m and 10m source data, use this setting in your fs2002.cfg file:&l;Terrain&r;TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL=21Regards,Steve

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Hi SteveThanks so much for the info. Just curious though, would an FS2000 style flatten switch in the scenery.cfg work also? BobL

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Yes, but you are limited to 10 flatten switches per scenery area and the switch only supports rectangles. My system creates bgl files with many sides, making it possible to preserve local terrain elevation, and I don't believe there is any limit to the number you can use.At the request of someone using my flatten kit, I have created another set of files to create exclude bgl files as well and expect to add it to the download shortly. (This avoids the limit of one exclude switch per scenery area.)He is using the bgl files to replace the switches in the scenery.cfg file so he can combine scenery areas and keep all the flatten/exclude support while working around the limitation on the number of scenery areas supported. Pretty resourceful. I was happy to provide him with the exclude component.Steve

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Well, I just tried it at Athens, GA and there is no change. I am probably doing something wrong. Take a look at this and see if there is anything obviousKAHN_BleedPatch80833:57.06 -83:20.4233:56.89 -83:20.4133:56.90 -83:19.6033:56.82 -83:19.4933:56.54 -83:19.6133:56.50 -83:19.4933:56.87 -83:19.2833:56.89 -83:18.8133:57.01 -83:18.8133:57.01 -83:19.1533:57.10 -83:19.1633:57.24 -83:19.0933:57.28 -83:19.2133:57.25 -83:19.2333:57.21 -83:19.3533:57.16 -83:19.3733:57.18 -83:19.4733:57.26 -83:19.5433:57.22 -83:19.6333:57.07 -83:19.67SCASM completes the compiling without error. And FS tells me it's updating the libraries or some such thing as that. It goes by awfully fast. But the tarmac is still grass. And each one of those coordinates represents a vertex, in CCW rotation, on the existing airport polygon.Thoughts?Bob

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First, a small correction. The flatten switch supports any 4-sided figure, not just rectangles.A quick check of your data revealed no obvious problems. I loaded my own 30m mesh for the area and can see the grass/tarmac problem, so I created a bgl using your data and can confirm that it does not restore the tarmac. It does, however, fix the problem with disappearing yellow taxi lines. Interesting.I created my own crude bgl for a larger area using the data below. This patch does restore the tarmac.KAHN80833:57.32 -83:20.5333:56.42 -83:20.5333:56.42 -83:18.5833:57.32 -83:18.58So, it seems as if there is a problem with the data you are using. Perhaps a single point is missing or out of sequence. I briefly tried including a check in the software that would confirm that the data is in correct CCW order, but it quickly became apparent that such a check would not be trivial. Perhaps someday.Despite the approach suggested in my instructions, I now usually begin by drawing a crude sketch of the airport on paper, and then record the vertex coordinates next to the points of interest. This helps insure that I enter each of them, and in the correct sequence.I'm pleased to see that you decided to try my approach, and hope you will take another shot at it.Good luck,Steve

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This thread should likely be in the Scenery Design Forum by now, since it has progressed in that direction, but here goes anyway.I think you'll find that Flatten commands while working on defined coordinates, are subject to the coordinates of the particular mesh area defined by the scenery engine. In other words, if one or more of your coords doesn't fall within that defined boundary, the command(s) has no effect. By broading your area of coverage, you may find that the correction then takes effect. Trial and error would seem to rule, Also, it is critical that the assigned elevation be as completely accurate as possible.

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Hi Barney,>This thread should likely be in the Scenery Design Forum by nowPerhaps (or even off line), but the topic frequently arises in this Forum, and is of general interest, so if you will indulge me a bit further... (Your comments prompted some additional testing and a refined working hypothesis.)>I think you'll find that Flatten commands while working on defined >coordinates, are subject to the coordinates of the particular>mesh area defined by the scenery engine.It appears as if the command operates on areas whose minimum size is defined by the final resolution of the mesh. LOD10 mesh creates a data grid with 38.2m between elevation points, so the smallest area that can be flattened using this mesh is a 38.2m x 38.2m quadrant. >In other words, if one or more of your coords doesn't fall within>that defined boundary, the command(s) has no effect. So if a vertex lies within one of these small quadrants, that entire quadrant will be flattened. Presumably, all quadrants containing specified vertex coordinates, those quadrants crossed by lines connecting these vertices, and the quadrants contained within the perimeter of these lines will be flattened.>By broading your area of coverage, you may find that the correction >then takes effect. I tested an area 0.0005 x 0.0005 minutes square and a small area was flattened, although not this small. I think the flatten correction will take effect no matter how small an area you specify, but may not cover as large an area as needed. Broadening the area is then called for. The mesh LOD will determine the precision with which you can expand the area.With this in mind, I suggest that initial testing be done with an extreme elevation so the affected area is easily seen, then correct the elevation once satisfied with the area covered.>the assigned elevation be as completely accurate as possibleTrue. The elevation used in this situation is the airport elevation listed in the Map View database for the airport.Thanks,Steve

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