RealAir Statement re: Vinka

[Guest]

Hello,I am reluctant to make a public statement on this issue as I had hoped that this matter could have been resolved privately between the parties. To some extent that has happened and the Vinka L-70 authors have now agreed to remove some of the airfile data which we objected too. The texture infringements are not our concern and are a seperate issue between FSD and the Vinka authors.However there has now been much speculation here and at other forums, some of it wildly presumptive and inaccurate, and I even got one e-mail threatening to "destroy RealAir" because we had made attempts to destroy the reputations of the Vinka designers. That is complete rubbish.We have bent over backwards to resolve this amicably, privately and in a civilised manner.There are also statements in another forum that imply RealAir actually stole data from the Vinka airfile author. This is complete nonsense. I have never even seen any data from this author before two days ago. There are also statements that spin capable data has been available at various websites for some time. If that was the case then we believe a spinning aircraft for Fs would have been produced before the Sf260 was released. In fact no aircraft before the SF260 could spin in the sense I understand it, which is to provoke the aircraft to autorotate by use initially of back elevator and rudder, and thereafter rudder only.The Vinka airfile designer has now admitted that he did use some parameters from our Sf260 which relate to spinning capability. This data has been independently examined by both the Avsim staff and other interested parties and they confirm that some parameters are direct copies of the RealAir data, and others are copied and then very slightly altered.It has been also speculated elsewhere that I spent a few hours on spin capability. In fact this work took, on and off, two years up to the release stage of the SF260. This fact is known by Peter Sidoli who generously tested my designs over a long period, and by Steven Beach Comer and James F Bond, both of whom tested our aircraft for a long period of time before release.Let me state categorically that I admire the Vinka aircraft. It is of extremely high standard and I have long been an admirer of Mikko's work in aircraft design. I have no personal animosity towards Mikko and I wish him well with the Vinka.We are not a payware giant out to slay a freeware team. Indeed, the vast majority of RealAir's output is freeware, and we continue to release free addons. We have only two commercial addons currently, one of which is the least expensive aircraft available of its type. The other is we feel extremely good value considering the development time which went into it.We are also not against other authors developing and improving aircraft flight characteristics, and indeed if any of the Vinka designers had contacted us BEFORE releasing it, we would have been perfectly willing to exchange information and share knowledge up to a certain point. Steve Small has often shared information with us, and even though we go about design in perhaps a different way we have arrived at a point of mutual respect.However I wouldn't dream of deliberately using any of Steve's data without first contacting him. It is a matter not just of legality but common courtesy.I am not against anyone else producing a spinning aircraft, and I acknowledge that the Vinka airfile designer has clearly been working on this for some time. However I do feel strongly that in solving the problems of spinning aircraft, which FS was never designed to achieve, authors should stick to their own methods and not blantantly copy our work, and especially so not having first contacted us for prior discussions. The parameters involved do not number many, but in fact were absolutely crucial to successfully spinning the Sf260. Other methods no doubt exist, but it is clear to us that the copying of these vital parameters was done in order to save time...time which WE took and which translates to a huge investment on our part.So, we are quite happy for the Vinka to be re-uploaded, and for everyone to enjoy it, but without OUR work included.The minutae of legality and copyright is a secondary issue. We make all efforts to act with honesty and integrity, and we think it is reasonable for other developers to act similarly.I repeat I have no axe to grind against Mikko who I believe was completely unaware of the airfile issues with his own aircraft.Rob Young - RealAir Simulations

[Guest jgoldman]

Just a fast note:FSD resolved the texture issue in a friendly way, and Mikko will be releasing an updated texture with his corrections.When people exchange information in a civilized and friendly fashion the outcomes are positive.FSD also takes this moment to express our sincere condolences to Mikko and his family for their loss.JimFSD

[tigert 0]

>The Vinka airfile designer has now admitted that he did use>some parameters from our Sf260 which relate to spinning>capability.Where can this information be found? /tuomas

[Guest]

If you reread the first paragraph of Rob

[Guest]

>capability. This data has been independently examined by both>the Avsim staff and other interested parties and they confirm>that some parameters are direct copies of the RealAir data,>and others are copied and then very slightly altered.I would like to point out that all this "evidence", from both parties, was also sent to FS Nordic's administration, where the original release of the aircraft was made. I have pointed in the private discussions that we have NOT been satisfied with the material provided to see the possible copyright infregements of this aircraft. I agree that some parts of the dynamics look similar, when looked as a graphical image, but I have not seen any real numeral values of the airfiles which would confirm the issue. However, the data what the original authors have provided, in relation to the issues important to Vinka's aerobatic performance, show NO similarities to RA's plane.Sami PuroFS Nordichttp://www.fsnordic.net/

[Guest]

Rob,Thanks for clearing things out to the "all knowing audience". I wish I had have time or strenght to write it myself, as it was our package that caused the whole mess...Mikko http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/mmniemi/shots/banger.gif

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Mikko Maliniemimmniemi@hotmail.com

[tigert 0]

Yeah, that's why I was asking what specifically was said, since it was very vague./Tuomas

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

And Mikko, with that, all the interested parties have had their say, and we'll close this thread down before it implodes. My condolences for your family's loss.

[Guest]

Hello Sami,But the author HAS confirmed he copied the data in question. I am not at liberty to publish private e-mail here without his permission. I suggest you contact him and ask him to forward the e-mail.Rob Young