Hi lawyerpilot,Great post. I especially agree with the first point you made. An Email is a very inpersonal way of talking to someone. It is very hard to transfer a Facial or body emotion into plain text. I has happened to me many times that I would understand something completely different than what someone would like me to understand. Nowadays Smileys are added to the conversation to help tranfer a particular emotion across a text message, while not being prefect it still do a descent job. However I can't see any other valuable communication mean that could be used for cutomers to contact their company that are literally half way across the globe. There is Instant Messaging which I think could help with the issue but that would require companies to have someone constently monitoring the IM program, I don't really think that is do-able either.I've got to go now, but I will post again later.

>(Before I start, just keep in mind that I tried to jot down a>couple of thoughts, and time is short. Most thoughts are>incomplete)Where is #4?Actually, never mind. I barely got through the first sentence of #1. The "MS Flight Simulator General Discussion Forum" seems like a strange place to be discussing market and communication theory anyway.Oh, and welcome to the internet world. :-wave

I agree with the necessity for e-mail dialogues - it's hardly reasonable for non-global, part-time, home-based businesses to provide a telephone help desk really, but I disagree with the basic conclusion that e-mail is the cause of the confusion. It isn't. It's the obstinacy, stupidity and crass incompetence of a few - on BOTH sides of the fence. There are certainly dilettante developers - and no matter how deep the talent the objectionable nature keeps us from doing business with them. Sadly not always in advance. Lessons are learned that way, and it is perfectly right and proper that the community should share those grievances. But equally, there's the truly obnoxious customer, one for whom the sound of their own voice is vindication enough for the legitimacy of their complaint. It is also true to say that allowing these people to vent reveals them to be the type they are. Good. We also learn from that too.In both cases the `common ground` is often an absence of thought, the simple practice of engaging brain before engaging `mouth` whether typed or not. "Think twice, act once", goes the saying. But maybe in simming terms it should be "think twice, act on the conclusion to think once more, then finally act only on the completion of the thought - and then think about it". We should not imply, conclude or expect that all simmers are our `friends` because we share a common hobby, nor should we expect that all developers will provide the level of support we expect or be friendly to our demands. However, the crucial issue, surely, is how well we as a group DEAL with these issues. Not whether they occur. Frankly, certain developers in this community should - and I mean really should, not as an expression of vehemence - be seeking professional psychiatric help with the borderline paranoia they display in dealing with enquiries and customers. Likewise, it is clear that reading manuals and following instructions is beyond the technical capabilities of a good proportion of the target audience. Face it, that's the community we're in. So how do we deal with it is REALLY the question, not why it exists?This idea of `friendly` businesses founded on the simple premise of supplying the customer with the best possible product? Forget it. Assume they are all lyers, cheats and thieves.Customers are honest, decent people who only want to get the best from their purchase and spend more money helping those developers provide better product at cheaper prices? Forget that too, customers are lyers, cheats and thieves, as grabby and greedy as developers.OK, so once we get to that level and strip away all the fanciful, yet fruitless niceties, what are we actually left with? Oh yes: an industry. Many of us work in industries where almost everybody lies, cheats and thieves, are surrounded by incompetents or (being honest) are happy to do the barest minimum for the maximum benefit. Accept that, and then you can only be pleasantly surprised.All that we are really left with are the basic legal principles. And those apply whether any of us like ot or not. If you feel truly aggrieved as a customer, SUE somebody. If you feel truly hard done by as a developer, SUE somebody. Don't castigate, LITIGATE.This is the American way, increasingly the World Way and is, ultimately the only way true satisfaction can be obtained at the same time as issuing a warning to anyone who would step over the line, on either side.Or just don't get involved and treat the stupidity as part of the fun. Allcott

As I said my friend, I ran out of time. And, as I use MS exclusively, and my comments are directed at customers and developers of commercial payware for MS, I think this is appropriate..."MS Flight Simulator Discussion Forum".

I apologize for the repeated msgs.P4 2.81024 DDRAM800 Bus36 gig SATA hardrive80 gig harddriveATI Radeon 9700 ProCH yoke/pedalsElite Multi quadrant- serial19" inch monitor-Soundblaster PCI 512Win XPCommercial ASEL- Instrument 292 hoursAOPALawyerPilots Bar AssociationNTSB Bar Association"Men without dreams are never free, twas thus this way and thus will ever be."

(Before I start, just keep in mind that I tried to jot down a couple of thoughts, and time is short. Most thoughts are incomplete)As a legal professional and commercial pilot, who has frankly had a great deal more experience in marketing than either of the latter two (due to starting a media company, a product development concern, and being involved with other companies as a consultant), I see two fundamental problems that cause the constant consternation found in the forums, when it comes to support and releasing new products in the flightsim community. First, if there were this much public discontent over products and support in a normal consumer products company, from Gillette to Dunkin Donuts to Compaq, their reputation would be absolutely horrific. So, here are some of the sources of the problem in my opinion. Some occur on the customer's end and some on the industry side. #1 All contact is via email. The demeanor that is used in communications between developer and customer can be much more severe and biting with no opportunity to talk in person, via a phone interface. There is less repercussion. With one caveat. I don't care how wrong the customer is, the company must make every attempt to make the customer happy in the warranty period. That is a cost of doing business, and it insures very happy customers. Every company has the bad customers, but they are a very small percentage of the total revenue. But, lashing back at them is pointless and harmful. I can name two companies in particular who don't understand this concept. I have had customers that I wanted to literally kill. But, I bit my tongue, because I knew that I needed them to eat. Occasionally, in three to four cases out of thousands, I would have to let them go and sue me if they were going to, for their health and mine. This of course resulted in no action. But, in this community, where the customers are solely an email identity and transaction number, and further are global, so there is no threat that they can drive over to your office and beat you up, it is way too easy for developer and customer to lose their cool. More reason to step up the customer service on the developer's part. Regardless of the time and cost. Yes the support will increase 5x as Small suggests, but so have his revenues. It is an implied and direct relationship.#2 The companies are usually part-time ventures. Because the companies are part-time, it is even easier to become frustrated and claim that there is not enough time and resources to solve problems. But, that is why you have to choose. Make money and be there to solve any problem, or stay freeware and use the "it's freeware, you should be thankful" excuse. The instant you delve into the payware realm, you need to have your ducks in a row on the customer service side. i.e. always smile and suck it up. (I will be dealing with the customer shortcomings in a minute)#3 Ever wonder why companies don't put the development staff on the front line? Akamai in Boston for example, a major tech company(I have four friends that work there in the marketing department merely as a step between the developer to communicate with the clients.) uses a lot of people to take the msg of the developer to the client and solve customer service concerns. Most smaller companies do not have this luxury, but if they are to be successful, they need to implement this customer service with one person who is most congenial. Otherwise, if they don't have this, they have to bend over backwards to make every customer happy. IT IS THE NATURE OF BUSINESS. I don't care how cranky the customer is. The problem arises (and no offense to the tech guys here) that many, not all, developers and IT guys are not known for their customer service skills. So you are making a guy who is good at developing products, do something that he is not good at. and then, to make things worse, he has to do it over an impersonal, somewhat inefficient and time consuming medium as email.#5 Inflexible customers over an impersonal medium. Again, due to the medium, customers think that perfection is the only alternative. It is easy to cry foul over email, and more importantly, to threaten a lawsuit everytime something happens. But, because email does not allow contact, your natural instinct is to threaten a grave response, to insure a solution. Sort of a legal detente if you will. Build up your defenses to ward off a more unpleasant result from your opponent. But, customers need to understand that small companies cannot insure complete perfection with smaller budgets. They are not MS. But, the converse of this, is that flightsimming is like the hobby of model trains, only intangible. There are companies like FSD, PMDG, etc. that make very small quantities of product, like boxcars, that are scrutinized heavily by consumers and the 12-14 magazines that are successfull in the train hobby industry. They are under equal scrutiny to make perfect products in small quantities. But, again, they must be tolerant that there could be different levels of quality than that produced by TYCO. Nonetheless, there is also the argument that small merchants, like specialty candy shops in a small cute town, candle merchants, etc. should still strive like their larger counterparts to have a perfect product.#6 Monopoly Actually it's more of an oligopoly. But either way, I think flightsim companies think that the customers are in a take it or leave it situation, because the only competition is on where you are going to spend your money. There are rarely two companies making the same plane. Ok sorry must run, I will write more later.... ;)CBCommercial ASEL Instrument 302 hours (working on CFI and multi)

I took care of the dups fyi.

Thank you Ken! BTW, congrats on the freeware util.