Sign in to follow this  
Guest bones

FS2004 flight modelling

Recommended Posts

I would appreciate some guidance on the steps I need to take to rework my FS2002 flight model for FS2004 users.Are there any parameters that definitely require alteration or is it a matter of tweaking the existing values by trial and error?Thanks,boneshttp://fsaviation.net

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Woodsy, is that you? (rhetorical) Good to see a familiar face from the old text-base flightsim.com boards. You might remember me, I went by the nick "Flattop".Anyway, on to your question. I'm not anywhere near a good source of knowledge in FDE (I'm trying, though, long way to go), but you may find the link to the following thread helpful. Be warned it is VERY long, but I believe you may be able to find some answers here. A lot of FDE "heavy hitters" weighed in on this one when 2004 hit the shelves. Hope this helps a bit...you might have to cut and paste, no idea how this link will work when posted....http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...6&mesg_id=12256BTW: Your website is looking good. Were you ever able to make use of the Tiger Moth photos I sent you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, it's definitely me - I checked in the mirror. Still hanging on and still dabbling.I remember the old flightsim boards but I still remember the old days of 2400 modems and FSFORUM on CIS when we made aircraft for FS4.. I should have been put out to grass a long time ago but it's all concrete around here. :)Thanks for the link - I'll check it out. The question was indeed for the Tiger Moth dynamics. Users who have ported it into FS2004 say it flies fine but "different" and I'd like to know just what may have been changed so that I can get the modelling right for the new sim.I ended up with about 90 Tiger photo's from many enthusiasts and I shamefully regret that I can't recall which ones you sent me. Can you remind me which aircraft it was?boneshttp://fsaviation.net

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>Yep, it's definitely me - I checked in the mirror. Still hanging on and still dabbling.Yes, it definitely is you. Your wit is a dead giveaway...LOLWow, what a trip in the "way back" machine. 2400 modems and CIS, it's a wonder how anything got done at that speed. How the times have changed....I did have your Tiger Moth for 02, but just realized I never tried porting her over to 04, must give this a go. I can say that my Decathlon suffered some strange behavior on initial transfer to 04. I think the first thing I notice was that pitch was a little screwy, as well as the effect of elevator trim. She exhibited a heavy nose-up tendency and attitude. Hope you get it worked out, your Tiger Moth was a nice addition in 02. :)My mistake on stating that they were Tiger Moth images I sent you. They were actually Gipsy Moth photos. A beautifully restored one wearing a really sharp black and yellow scallop livery. I think it was only like two images though....the were shot at a little airshow at the New Garden airport in New Jersey a few years back. Hmmm, now that I'm looking at those pictures again, I feel another project aircraft idea welling up in my head....I know what you mean with the volume of photos. While working on my Deke, I collected such a mass of pictures and data, it still takes literally hours to wade through all of it to find something. I guess that beats not having any info at all, eh?Be sure to let us all know if you get things worked out with the Tiger Moth. She's great fun to fly! Oh, incidently, do you know if the VF scenery is compatible with FS2004? I think those packages may be some of the nicest textured scenery available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob Scott wrote a very nice tutorial on this in either this or the FS9 forum. Try searching for Bob Scott and Nuggets and FDE.Seems Douglas K wrote a very nice one too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I converted 4 models and the main thing that was different was the pitch behavior- much too fast and sensitive. All I did was move the sliders for pitch stability, elevator response, and pitch trim. In some cases I did the same for roll. Contact points and other features seemed ok as is. I may have modified the pitch behavior for flaps, also.John Woodward

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings 'Bones',I fear this reply may appear more than once as the forum is rejecting the long URL in the middle of this post when I try to post in html format. I am retrying in text format.In post one of this thread you said;<Firstly I realise that you have been writing and publishing your own FDE for some years and are not in need of basic information. This specific problem was discussed at length in two threads that I initiated here shortly after the release of FS2004. After refining a minimum 'workable solution' from the subsequent lengthy discussion I made the necessary information available to my fellow collaborators. Most of my FS2002 FDE were then updated by Tom Gibson using this methodology. After further refinement by Tom we subsequently published the methodology in Tom's Classic Propliner forum within the thread entitled 'What changes required for FS2002 to FS2004';http://www.simufly.com/cgi-local/YaBB/YaBB...;num=1069832768Remember to stick that back together into one line if it is split into two by your browser. You do not have to register to read Tom's Classic Propliner forum.This methodology will convert almost any piston engined aircraft from FS2002 to FS2004 with only minor changes to their dynamics. The methodology is comprehensive. Not all aircraft will require all of the remedies. Aircraft with normally aspirated engines and constant speed, or variable pitch, airscrews present special problems and need further conversion. These problems are not addressed in the thread aliased above. Fortunately the Tiger Moth has a fixed pitch prop and is relatively simple to convert. Unfortunately the changes which you have made with 'sliders' do not provide a workable solution. The changes in the hard coded flight model between FS2002 and FS2004 are too great.For an aircraft to exhibit maximum realism in FS2004 its FDE need to be written from scratch to match the relevant FS2004 flight model. Since I have always enjoyed flying your Tiger Moth I wrote FS2004 optimised DH82A flight dynamics from scratch for my own use a few months ago. You are welcome to these if you would like to circulate them rather than a 'workable solution' update. My files are fully compatible with your handling notes since they were always realistic. I have been able to resolve some of the problems that you reported encountering during FS2002 development.I have time to make detail changes to my existing FS2004 files to match specific requirements you may have, but not to undertake significant redevelopment, or lengthy discussion concerning methodology. I will contact you by e-mail later today in an ASCII only post entitled 'DH82A update' with some further details specific to your DH82A release. There is no need to reply if you would prefer to produce your own FDE for FS2004. You should have no difficulty doing so after reading the thread aliased above.FSAviator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last things first as all my recent work has been in scenery. Yes, the VF/GM photo scenery is superb in FS2004 and positional accuracy is very good indeed. In most cases it is just a matter of taking Lat/Long data direct from the UK AIP and entering this in MakeMDL (I am putting in all the UK radio masts above 500ft AGL right now). It is good fun when you see the mast line up with the shadow thrown by the real mast in the photo scenery. :)I still have your Gipsy Moth photo's - along with quite a few others - but the project is stalled for want of really good drawings. I've had a few sets of these but they vary far too much to rely on..I have been told the Tiger works reasonably well in FS2004 but with altered climb rates and speeds. Having not looked at aircraft design since FS2004 came out I was therefore not sure if the flight modelling is so different as to have to start again or whether just a few values had altered..boneshttp://fsaviation.net

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you John - that sounds promising. I was dreading a full rebuild of the perf data!The Tiger was quite responsive in pitch in real life so the FS2002 model reflected this. Ailerons were not so effective - one reason why the aircraft did not remain a competitive aerobatic aircraft for very long..boneshttp://fsaviation.net

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My most sincere thanks for an excellent link - it did work and I have saved the data to read through carefully.I should also like to thank you for such a concise and clear description of the changes to aircraft behaviour in FS2004. Essential reading for anyone involved in this process.boneshttp://fsaviation.net

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this