After 4 long evenings doing clean installs and system tweaking, I

Rich,See my post below--I had the same results testing on my daughter's new eMac 700. Rates were no better than my Beige g3/500 in OS10.2 but rocked when I started in OS9. I had in-cockpit rates in the 13-15 range (Flyhawk with the bottom of the Sacred Six touching the lower edge of the screen), and external rates that were 18-22. This at 10x7 (I usually run the beige at 8x6 in deference to the 15" monitor). The nVidea card did a nice job on the textures.I didn't tweak a thing -- it ran like a champ as soon as I went to 9Franklin mentioned enabling Quartz Extreme. I hope he elaborates (hint, hint).

Allan,Since I have a PCI Radeon, I used this free hack that enabled Quartz. Check out this link...http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/OSX/quartz_extr...d.html#storytop" PCI Extreme! enables machines with PCI graphics and a compatible graphics card [i.e. PCI Radeon/Radeon 7000] to use hardware acceleration in Quartz Extreme, the new composting engine in Mac OS 10.2, Jaguar. Hardware acceleration for Quartz Extreme on PCI machines has proven to boost performance by 5-15% when performing light tasks such as web browsing, e-mail, and word processing. However, it slows down heavy tasks such as encoding or decoding video, especially DVDs by up to 50%. This results in dropped frames, studdering audio, and video falling out of sync with audio. Bottom line: When the GUI is piped through the slower PCI bus it tends to choke up other tasks that require heavy processing. "I don't have a DVD so I'm not affected and I haven't seen anything yet that's choked up my system. For me, there's still a vast system wide improvement with 9.2 by installing Jaguar.Rich@KLEWBeige G3 233 MHz DT rev.1 G4 400 MHz NewerTech upgrade OS 9.2.2/Jaguar 384 MB RAM ATI Radeon Mac (PCI) Thrustmaster FCS/WCS

Thanks, Rich,I believe that's the "activation" issue I saw mentioned on Apple's beige G3 forum.Sounds like it needs not be activated in the eMac as it has AGP graphics (nVidea GF2MX). Thus the lack-luster rates I saw in running Fly II in 10.2 are probably all it gets.It also sounds as if I'm out of luck on the Beige unless I upgrade the OS and add a new vidcard. It implies the PCI ATI Rage 128 won't respond to Quartz. This changes my view on putting 10 on the beige if the OS relies on QE to draw stuff. I may be better off waiting until the Beige is truly out of snuff, and that may be a while. Fly II is the only challenge it gets. I routinely download game demos that use OpenGL to see how I'm doing. Quake III Arena demo screams on this machine. Descent III rates nearly doubled (from 22 to 41) when I added the ZIF.I earlier posted that the ZIF didn't change Fly II's performance. I'm about ready to retract that--I'm seeing incremental improvements. I best not plan any major upgrades until I see how the Mac patch works.

Allan,That was a poor choice of words on my part... you don't need to activate it per se, but it only will work with newer video cards (though there are hacks for unsupported cards.)-Franklin------------------------------Franklin TesslerDP 800Fly! for Mac Co-moderator

Your help and a little research helped me understand better. The eMac has an AGP nVidea GF2MX that should be running full tilt under Jaguar. However, I wasn't impressed with the performance. If I want to see single-digit frame rates, there's always the old G3 :)As I read it, Quartz is drawing a lot of pdfs and that's how they get the awesome screen experience we see in "normal" programs and windows. If Quartz works that way within rate-sensitive programs like flight sims and action games, then that could explain the sorry rates. Imagine rendering 20+ pdfs every second! I hope I'm wrong....please tell me I'm very wrong!

There is an great reviw of OS 10.2 on the Ars Technica web site: http://www.arstechnica.com/reviews/02q3/ma...osx-10.2-1.html that clearly explains how Quartz extreme works, complete with lovely color diagrams. Thanks to my quick education via the article, it appears that the whole screen is an Open GL graphic including text, under QE. It should also speed up things that start as Open GL like Fly, and apparently theOpen GL in Jaguar is much improved as well.Despite all this great theory, I too see frame rates of about 10 in Jaguar, and like others see an improvement in 9.2.2. I know Jaguar updates some OS 9 extensions the first time Classic is launched. Will check to see if some Open GL are among what it updates.Hope you find the article helpful - it is a great review of Jaguar. Found it cited on Macintouch. Hope someday we can all smoothly "fly" with OS 10.

Does this happen if your OS 9.2.2 is on a separate parition from jaguar?My experience was that in OS9 I got about 3 fps. In jaguar I got 10+. I haven't gone back and tried FLY in OS9 since then. Are you saying that now it will all of a sudden be better than jaguar?

Rich,notice the thread I initiated "Fly!2k performance" - I saw, that your setup is amost identical to mine (upgraded G3 233). Could you let me know, what kind of performance/fps you are getting in Fly!2k under OS 9.2.2 (pre- and post-Jaguar)?What is the word regarding Fly! II? Is it now at all flyable?Thanks for helping,Jorg

Jorg,I reinstalled Fly!2K several months ago only to find I was having a variety extension conflicts, so I promptly removed it from my HD. I may try again in the future, but for now I get more pleasure out of Fly! II with the use of some very nice add-ons and such.Fly! II is more flyable now than it's ever been, well... for me that is. Jaguar (with the addition of Quartz) gave me a slight boost in fps. You can still bottom out frames in areas having lots of models and over big city scenery. So, there's still some room for improvement.I haven't done any benchmarking with fps, but I'd be glad to compare mine with yours since we do have similar systems. Rich@KLEWBeige G3 233 MHz DT rev.1 G4 400 MHz NewerTech upgrade OS 9.2.2 /Jaguar384 MB RAM ATI Radeon Mac (PCI) Thrustmaster FCS/WCS

Rich,thanks for your reply. I am looking forward to get Fly! II and Jaguar. There are quite a few features and add-ons I should be enjoying. Still, there is the "Rhein-Ruhr" scenery by Marc Stoering which is only available for Fly! That's my home area

Jorg,Out of curiosity, I made an attempt run Fly! 2k last evening. As before, I encountered some serious extension and driver issues and could not get Fly! 2k off the ground. My system is specifically tuned for Fly! II.Judging by the frame rates you

Thanks Rich,I'll sleep better now.Jorg