This may not be the appropriate forum for this, but since the PMDG737 is the last payware product I've purchased, it was the first that came to mind...I want to express my thanks and appreciation to all the payware authors/developers of FS2002/4 aircraft/utilities (Such as PDMG, PSS, Flight1, LAGO, Reality-XP, etc...). I know that there is a continuing debate regarding payware/freeware and where this hobby is going, but I want to express my view. If it wasn't for the talented folks who know how to develop these a/c and utilities (notice I didn't mention freeware or payware), the flight sim community would be considerably hurt.In today's world, time is precious, and to sit down and code what literally thousands will enjoy in the long run is not only a tremendous responsibility to the flightsimming community, but an incredible undertaking. I am proud to fly such a/c as the PMDG 737 or PSS Dash 8 (or avionics packages such as Reality XP) or others, because I realize and appreciate the shear number of hours that went into it's development for MY (also ready YOUR) enjoyment...Granted the hobby has shifted from predominately freeware to payware, and this isn't to slight the freeware authors whatsoever. As a matter of fact I have quite a lot of respect for you as you offer alot and ask for nothing. That in itself is significant, and please DO NOT stop your efforts. There is room for both.Where I get upset is listening to people complaining about MINOR (yes, MINOR) bugs for software they only paid $35 or so for. For those people, I offer this.. If you're arguing that "I paid for the software, and should get a perfect (or close to it) model" then (in my opinion) you have 4 options.. 1) Sit down in front of a workstation and come up with a better product! (at which point, I'll be your FIRST customer) 2) Pay for hundreds of dollars PER HOUR and head off to Boeing's training facility at KBFI and fly in a "perfect" simulator. 3) Spend the thoudsands of dollars, get you 737-7/8/9 type rating, get you 1000+ plus hours so you can say you have "experience", then tell the rest of us how, with your experience, a $35 payware addon should 100%, without any problems replicate your experience in a hundreds of dollars per hour simulator (which was YEARS in development), or multi-million dollar real aircraft. 4) Shut up and realize not to mention appreciate the shear amount of hours that went into programming what you're using. There is no such thing as a "perfect" OS which you can program an add-on to satisfy ALL users... Here's an idea, everyone in the world promise to use the same OS and same FlightSim version, and I'll lay any amount to bet that people at PMDG (including others) would develop add-on's that would rival (if not SURPASS) professional (i.e. Boeing/Airbus/DeHavilland), commercial simulators (taking into account our NON-dedicated processors).. They're catering to the widest audience possible to satisfy US (the flight simming community) as a whole, as much as possible...I want to THANK and express my TOTAL APPRECIATION to the entire team at PMDG (as well as other payware/freeware authors) for the work they've put in. I see some of the improvements in SU2, and can't wait. You're aircraft is a dream (not to mention in MY OPINON, an honor) to fly, easy to use (once you READ the manuals).Off my soapbox... In short, I want to say THANK YOU to the payware developers who suffer so much criticism from the public about products that they sit down and develop for OUR enjoyment, and due to the nature of multiple OS's and Flight Simulators, have relatively MINOR bugs...-Dan

2) Pay>for hundreds of dollars PER HOUR and head off to Boeing's>training facility at KBFI and fly in a "perfect" simulator. 3)>Spend the thoudsands of dollars, get you 737-7/8/9 type>rating, get you 1000+ plus hours so you can say you have>"experience", then tell the rest of us how, with your>experience, a $35 payware addon should 100%, without any>problems replicate your experience in a hundreds of dollars>per hour simulator (which was YEARS in development), or>multi-million dollar real aircraft.Hi Dan,Just to re-enforce your comments, I've got one particular colleague who regularly collects brand spanking new NGs from Boeing for EasyJet and he's told me than on some occasions he's taken off with up to 17 defects in the techlog. Considering the price of a new aircraft, I personally think that thirty five bucks for PMDG 737NG is money well spent. It is also a great addition to keeping one's hand in during the jobless months which happen too frequently in the airline industry!Enough said :)

Maybe I'm missing the point here but are you saying that when a payware developer puts out a product with bugs, that we should just purchase it, accept the bugs, and thank the developer for his time?Well, I can see one thing happening with that senario.....the quality of payware products will plummet dramatically. The fact is that although much negative comments have been made of the PMDG beta testers (using PMDG as an example), a lot of bugs with a new release will NOT be found by Beta testers. Only when released and tested on 100 times as much different system combinations will these other bugs be found. To think that we should just accept the list of bugs that were found with the initial release and just thank PMDG for giving us the NG is rediculous. I have already thanked them by giving them my $40.Now, on the other side of the coin, many people complained, long lists were drawn up, some customers were downright rude, some were more forgiving, but, what was the end result? The end result was SU1.1 and soon to be released SU2 ......HUGE improvements over the initial release with even some visual improvements.Complaining is a good thing....it keeps developers on their toes. I dont think people should be rude about it, but with some developers, rudeness is absolutely necessary (I wont name names). In the case of PMDG, these guys have shown that they are comitted to customer support and willing to listen. Rudeness toward PMDG is definitely not necessary. But I shudder to think what would happen if people stopped complaining about bugs. The quality would definitely drop, but I guess that would be ok with you because even though quality is low, the developer spent lots of hours of his time doing this so we should be greatful and just shut up.Take WingViews for example.....that's not even a bug. One guy complained that there were no wingviews, got slammed by a few people but others agreed. A few weeks passed and he brought his request to the front page again. What happened? PMDG listened and included wing views for the next patch. That most likely wouldn't have happened without "complainers". And that wasn't even a bug. I guess you would have told him to buy a ticket and go ride a real plane if he wants wing views.I for one have complained about the TOGA button being on the screw. Most people accepted it and disagreed with me. However, for SU2, the TOGA switch is on the throttle quadrant in the VC (although not on the 2D panel, which is ok with me since I intend to map it to my joystick anyway). Now as a result of my "complaining" everyone will benefit.Now, you're entitled to your opinion.....I don't agree with it buy I applaud you for making it. One thing I'd like to know though .........(and that brings me back to my days as a teacher when we went on strike for a pay raise. We got the pay raise, and the other teachers who refused to support the strike ALSO got the pay raise....guess what, they accepted it).............seeing that there are only minor bugs, did you install SU1.1, and are you gonna install SU2? I mean, seeing that these service updates came about mostly as a result of "complainers" complaining about minor bugs, I'm assuming that you're still flying with the original release and enjoying it immensely.I have lots of respect and thanks to PMDG and other payware developers....actually, the only freeware I have on my FS setup is the Grabowsky ERJ. I even purchased the Feel There ERJ to go with it. So I do appreciate them and I show it with my wallet. I appreciate them even more when they listen to my complaints and use it to improve the quality of their product.Thanks for fixing the bugs PMDG, no matter how "minor" they are.

I for one do not believe that "complaining" is the way to go when it comes to improvements being made by PMDG or any of the (small) handful of truly quality Aircraft developers. I do believe that criticising (constructively) is fine and I also believe that PMDG expects and probably encourages criticism. That is a good way to get meaningful input for improving the product. There's a big difference, in my opinion, between criticising and some of the ridiculous complaining I read on this and other forums. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not an expert in software design, development or distribution. I'm not a commercial pilot with a million hrs of seat time. Hell, I've never even sat down in the left (or right) hand seat of an airplane.:) What I have become an expert on in my 51 years on this planet and my 10+ years in flight simming is quality, and I believe, the "right" way to go about HELPING a quality developer like PMDG get the most out of their product. And that is by offering suggestions and constructive criticism, having a little patience to let them do their job, and recognizing the enormous work involved in the development of a title as complex as this 737NG. I've read every post on this forum at least five times and I agree with many of the criticisms leveled at the aircraft over the past few months but PMDG has reponded very quickly with fixes that were available and the SU2 update promises to put this package absolutely at "the top of the heap" when it comes to FS add-on. Thanks again PMDG staff, beta testers, and the majority of folks on this forum who have helped me have a blast with this aircaft!George Stoddard

Anthony,With the greatest respect, you are not seeing the wood for the trees!My point was that companies paying nearly $100 million have to live with bugs/technical defects until such time as they may be remedied, then someone paying $40 dollars should not expect their product to be perfect either 1st time round.It takes time to iron out all the faults and as such people should point them out to the manufacturers and authors.I apologise if I didn't clarify this point at the time - Soryy!Keep well!

Anthony,Thanks for catching a problem in my post that I was too late to catch and edit.. Let me clarify my point a bit.I think that bringing attention to bugs is critical to software development. Why I got upset, and what prompted me to make my original post was I've read too many rude and quite disrespectful way in which software bugs are brought up in this and other forums. For example:"Is anyone having problems with a VNAV disconnect when attempting to engage during climb once cleared to my final altitude? It disconnects and the FMC screen goes blank. Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong, can this be fixed??"Will be more received by support from the community and developers (and probably lead to fixes more quickly) than:"What the hell? The VNAV doesn't engage during climbout like the manual says it should. Can someone explain why I paid $40 for something that doesn't work like the real FMC?? What kind of ****** product is this, and what are the programmers thinking putting a "simulation" and it doesn't even properly simulate???"This is what I've seen too much of and prompted the post. Every piece of software ever written has had bugs which needed to be worked out. Complaining isn't the problem, but how people do it, and think that their $40 piece of software should operate right out the box/download as a $million dollar simulator, with no bugs, is.I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and that's fine. Just people who complain and are quite rude about were who my post was directed to...-DanOh yeah, of course I'll be installing SU2. :)

Well, you and I actually do see "eye to eye". I also believe in constructive critizism and suggestions. However that's the same as complaining to me. When I use the word "complaining" I mean "critizing constructively". Rudeness shouldn't be part of anything constructive. There is a big difference between someone complaining and someone being rude.I also believe that some times when support is really terrible, rudeness wouldn't be out of the question. If an addon reformats my hard drive, and after getting back to the net, I find out that all 70 other customers had the same problem, then you bet I'm gonna be rude. No, it wont help me to get my lost software back, but it would help me emotionally, (just like a murderer's death sentence helps the family of the victim even though it doesn't bring their loved one back). However, I have never had to be rude to any developer and I certainly can't see anyone being justified in being rude to PMDG.Having said all that, developers must also realise that when they go public with an addon, the public will show up to purchase that addon, and the public is made up of everyone....including rude people. So if a developer is not prepared to deal with rude people then he can either give them a refund (that should shut them up) or don't sell anything in the first place. I just don't think that two rude customers out of 50 should have a big impact on a developer's commitment to the rest of his customer base and to the improvement of his product. The WORST thing that developer could do is start being rude as well. On the other hand, the one thing I really hate are the apologists who think that people should not speak up when something is wrong, the ones who always start telling people to go out and buy a 10million dollar simulator, the ones who dont want to see the envelope pushed beyond its limits. And of course, when it is pushed beyond, they benefit.One more thing.....everyone knows that its almost impossible to release a program without bugs. But if everyone just sat back and accepted that, what incentive would developers have to TRY to make a release as bug free as possible? You would see half finished addon after half finished addon, the developer secure in the knowledge that people have accepted these kinds of releases. So when people complain about buggy releases, allow them to vent without telling them to buy a million dollar simulator. Because whether you like complaining or not, you still benefit from the end result. And to the people who like to complain.......try not to be rude.

Anthony,Agreed:)George Stoddard