Hi,I have a few questions of flight planning.When inputting the flight plan, do you "guess" the arrival runway and associated STAR, or do you input it once you get clearance from the arrival airport?.If I do "guess" the arrival runway, and then once I get to the airport I get clearance for a different runway, can I just change the runway in the Dep/Arr page?, I tried this last night, and once I had changed it I lost the whole flightplan, and LNAV was no longer able to follow the flightplan.CheersDanny Watkins

this is something that often frustrates me. i wish there was a utility out there that could tell you what the expected landing runway would be before you take off! :)andy

Hi guys - What I usually do is I plan my route for the longest STAR and the RWY that will give me the most disadvantage with regards to fuel i.e if I come flying from the east I will use the runway where I have to land from the west. This way I will always have planned fuel for the worst case scenario. And a continuos route for the FMC. But can also easily change as ATC will dance me around.Hope it helps,

What I tend to try and do is get a "report" from AS2004, this way I can "guess" the runway.But my major question is, should you program the arrival runway into the FMC before you have got clearance?.I did this, and when I tried to change it due to clearance giving me a different runway I lost my whole flightplan.Also, if you are planned for a runway, and its STAR puts you at x ft, but you get clearance for a different runway and you need to be much lower, do you just put it into a holding pattern to reduce your height to the right height to meet the new STAR?CheersDan.

Ok one piece at the time>But my major question is, should you program the arrival runway into >the FMC before you have got clearance?.You can program your arrival just up until you have to descend if you are planning a VNAV descent. That path is built from the ground and up.>I did this, and when I tried to change it due to clearance giving me >a different runway I lost my whole flightplan.Ummm... This should not be happening. May I ask you to attach the flightplan you used? Was it made in a Flight Planner?>Also, if you are planned for a runway, and its STAR puts you at x >ft, but you get clearance for a different runway and you need to be >much lower, do you just put it into a holding pattern to reduce your >height to the right height to meet the new STAR?Well, that depends on how tight you are. If there are room you can do a speed descent. You'll get the necessary information about it in the FMC to make yourself a picture of the descent. If there is a big difference in altitude and it's close to destination you'd better call for a 360 while losing some altitudeJust some food for thought,

"You can program your arrival just up until you have to descend if you are planning a VNAV descent. That path is built from the ground and up."Right, so this means I don't put the arrival runway into the FMC UNTIL I know for definate the arrival runway?, I only enter, into the FMC, the information up untill the top of descent?"Ummm... This should not be happening. May I ask you to attach the flightplan you used? Was it made in a Flight Planner?".Yeah, I did think it was wierd, the actually plan was made in FSNav, but I inputed it into the FMC manually.It was OOMS-OMDB, I was "planning" on flying ILS 12R, but when I contacted Dubai they cleared me for Runway 30R, got my planning a little wrong :(.I had the approach for ILS 12R already inputted into the FMC, so I went to the dep/arr page and changed it to runway 30r and hit exec, the whole flightplan up untill the arrival had gone, I was on LNAV, but once the new flightplan had been execed the AP would no longer follow the flightplan.Thanks very much for your helpDan.

In reality (and usually in VATSIM too) you get arrival information from air traffic controller, usually the FIR controller who hands you off to the final FIR where you will start your arrival procedures. Then you can enter the arrival and approach to your FMC in case you have them in database, but if you dont, you can for example enter manually the points of RNAV transition if available. It is not usually possible that you know the runway of arrival at your departure field already (only with very short trips sometimes) as it may change during the time due to weather or other reasons. You can OFCOURSE change it as much as you want to when airborne. Be sure you check the LEGS page for possible Discontinuities and clear them before executing.