Lights...

[t_a_h 0]

Hi guys,I had a flight as a passenger last weekend with a B737-500 without winglets. I could see over the wing, I had a good seat there at 11F. I saw NO flashing postion light there. Notred or green etc. NONE! So, I suppose one sees the light NOT from the cabin but outside the airplane.Somehow somewhere I found the checklist about the B737. There the landing lights are to retract just after climbing through 100FL. Well, somehow they were retracted just after takeoff within the climbchecks where climb beginns.The flight I had from EDDM to EDDC I experienced a checklist failure of the pilots. They started the APU ok. They started the engines while pushback. Ok. BUT they DIDNT switched OFF the packs! I was hardly able to breath! They flowed the apu air through the cabin into my lungs!!! So, they either forgot to switch them at AUTO or OFF during engine start! At the flight back the other day, they did all ok and I could hardly smell anything from the engines...So, what do you think about that? And why do I see the wingtip lights flashing when I can see from the cockpit the wings in FS9 but NOT in real live?

[Orlaam 306]

Well for one thing FS9 is a game and not real life, as you said. It depends on how you model the aircraft whether you see lights or not. I know some of my add-ons you can, and some you can't. I prefer to see them in the game, just because it looks cool, but it is just a game.

[Qavion 19]

"They started the engines while pushback. Ok. BUT they DIDNT switched OFF the packs!"Well there goes the claim that you can't start an engine with the packs running :-) Unless you were confusing the noise of recirc fans with packs?"They flowed the apu air through the cabin into my lungs!!!"APU air is normally used for airconditioning on the ground (on short transits), so some additional factor was involved here.I can think of two possibilities for what you were experiencing.1. It might have been fuel-rich air coming out of the tailpipe of the engine being started and going straight into the APU inlet.... and then into your lungs.2. It might have been fuel-contaminated engine bleed air. On your average Boeing jet aircraft, during startup, the flow of air (front to back) through the engine is not as good as it should be (plus you were getting a tailwind from the aircraft being pushed back). You may have been getting some fuel-rich air flowing forwards into the compressor section of the engine where they tap off bleed air for pack and other system use. Normally, some of the engine bleed valves on the engine being started (and on the other engine, depending on the type of aircraft) will CLOSE automatically, to assist the start process, but the valves may have been slow to close or didn't close properly. Either way, I'm sure it wasn't a pleasant experience. I'd consider writing a letter of complaint to the company, but make sure you have your facts right ;-)Cheers.Ian.

[Orlaam 306]

I remember one time when I was traveling to Sacramento from KPHX alone at age 17. On a 737 and the pressure was so bad I couldn't hear once we were crusing and had no hearing for 30 minutes after landing!!! I was freaked and scared. I'm not sure what happened, but it was bad.

[t_a_h 0]

Well, that sounds true to me. But I will not file a complaine, because it lasted only about 5 minutes 'till they cleared the cabin air. Way time ago I can remember that the captain knew what will happen and warned us that we would get nasty air getting in while engine start, because of some reason I cannot remember anymore. It could have been any of what you wrote. Well, the captain of the flight to EDDC could have made an announcement saying he is sorry, after he as well must have smelled the problem.Well, on the other hand the had about 8 to 12 knots crosswind while final approach and manualy flew the plane over the fence. He had even to use rudder and touched down first with the left mains, just a split second befor the right mains. He made the landing a greaser even though he had such bad wind with gusts!

[t_a_h 0]

Nowadays I would go front and talk to the first in command of the cabin crew to tell the captain fixing it or do a emergency landing somewhere! THAT is a problem with the cabin pressure system and after pasing FL100 experiencing this problem, the PIC should have had to return where he departed from. But well, no one got lasting illness or lasting malfunctions of health, so he thought better to get the money than to do an emergency procedure and loos a lot of money for the airline and as well have had to fill in many reports... That's it ! Savety versa Money

[Guest LLgaz]

Don't know about you, but 8-12kts crosswind is nothing to write home to mama about....there's no reason why landing in those conditions shouldn't be a greaser if the pilot wants. Now 20kts and over with gusts.......that's a different story. I was in the back of a 757 going into TXKF...which always seem to have terrible crosswinds....and I could see the runway all the way on final approach because the pilot crabbed all the way to the threshold. Then over the threshold he kicked the rudders and landed on one wheel....was really rough. The tourists all gave a great round of applause when the reversers came off (something that always annoys me to no end ;-) - that is, the applause). I had a chat with him after and he admitted that the crosswinds were really terrible.

[Guest Nickman]

You have to look closely to see the navigation lights in the day on a real Boeing. You rarely notice the strobe lights though. I'll see what the flight is like to Cancun coming up June 27 :(Nick B.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/800driver.jpg--AMD Athlon XP 3200+ @ 2.2 Ghz400W Power supply3x 80 mm Case FansSoyo VIA KT600 Dragon PlusnVidia GeForce FX 5200 128 mb2 x 512 PC400100 GB Western DigitalMicrosoft Sidewinder Precision 2

[t_a_h 0]

Well, it had to be more than just up to 12knots, because PIC used rudder about 4

[Qavion 19]

"I saw NO flashing postion light there. Notred or green etc. NONE! So, I suppose one sees the light NOT from the cabin but outside the airplane."Not sure if the lights are visible on a -500 without winglets, but here's a shot of the left hand wing of an -800 with winglets.http://members.ozemail.com.au/~b744er/737N...ngtipLights.jpgThere is actually a small fence blocking the light from reaching the cabin.I'd say these lights would be pretty hard to see from the cabin.The (steady) white lights on the rear of the wing, however, would not be that difficult to see.Cheers.Ian.