When I used to fly Cessnas before my Medical went belly up, I loved to go to the field and practice Touch and Goes for an hour or so. I became pretty good at it because an instructor friend of mine used to have me practicing planting the mains on the runway so that the passengers could not detect the exact touchdown point. I would love to take someone up for their first time in a small plane and land it like that and watch the expression on their faces, cause they usually were waiting for some kind of minor crash as we touched down. Well I pulled one of these off today on the ILS into Tampa airport from Fort Lauderdale with a 25-35 MPH wind factor slightly off the nose. I could not detect when the main gear touch. I looked at that replay about 10 times :):):).This landing will be my new bench mark for landings from now on ( watch , the next time, I will probably shear the landing gear off the 737 :) )

>When I used to fly Cessnas before my Medical went belly up, I>loved to go to the field and practice Touch and Goes for an>hour or so. I became pretty good at it because an instructor>friend of mine used to have me practicing planting the mains>on the runway so that the passengers could not detect the>exact touchdown point. I would love to take someone up for>their first time in a small plane and land it like that and>watch the expression on their faces, cause they usually were>waiting for some kind of minor crash as we touched down. >>Well I pulled one of these off today on the ILS into Tampa>airport from Fort Lauderdale with a 25-35 MPH wind factor>slightly off the nose. I could not detect when the main gear>touch. I looked at that replay about 10 times :):):).>>This landing will be my new bench mark for landings from now>on ( watch , the next time, I will probably shear the landing>gear off the 737 :) )>>While a "greaser" arrival is always fun, it's generally frowned on in commercial ops, unless you've got LOTS of runway to use. The "ideal" landing from an economy/safety point is one where you come in with enough energy to make a go-around easy, but not enough that you would bounce on a landing. Then you dump all that lift and any extra energy at touchdown when the spoilers deploy.The only airplane I could consistently make smooth arrivals in and not use a lot of runway was my old mooney - probably because you have to fly that airplane in a 10 knot window on approach - too slow and you stall, too fast and you float FOREVER. After a few hundred landings in it I got to the point where I'd bring it in right on the money, and then raise the nose just as it stopped flying in ground effect, making a beautiful "chirp".

<>Agreed on the Mooney, I had my first 3 hours in one recently, (N91382) belonging to a friend. Boy does she float forever if you are a little fast, And it is lovely to slow her with the nose raised, very much the same technique as in a B-25. Those air brakes really do slow you up when you join the pattern too. what a lovely airplane the Mooney is! You don't so much get in it as strap it on!CheersTimhttp://www.fssupport.com/maam_sim/maamsim_logo.gif

I've found that my landings go in "cycles." I can have about three months where I really stump it on, but then have about a week or two where they are consistently good. I've also found that my best ones were when I was away from the element for a little while. Tim is right, though. In the airline ops, all we really care about is landing in the touchdown zone and doing it on-speed. No two airplanes are alike, and the weight and balance are never exactly the same, so every airplane lands a little bit differently. In that, there are some airplanes you can land well all the time. Conversely, there are some that no matter what you do, you cannot roll it on. We all get lucky sometimes, though.

Speaking of which, I've always wondered what Vertical speed is considered acceptable.Is 600ft/min acceptable.....or 500, 400, 300, 200, 100?I would think that anything less than 100ft/min is a "greaser".But given the fact that you try to land on the TDZ, what vertical speed window would you stay in? If for example you realise you're gonna float a bit, would you do 700, or 800ft/min to get it down? What is the maximum to ensure that you don't bend the "shaft"...??:)

A normal airliner landing, ie. a firm touchdown on the TDZ is around ~ 100-150 fpm.50fpm or less is considered a greaser, and you really shouldn't aim for those landings. They usually result in a touchdown speed way below Vref, which increases the risk for a tailstrike and results in an increased landing distance. Also, the aircraft is much more vulnerable for wind gusts etc. during a lengthened greaser-flare landing where the speed bleeds quickly below desired.Fly the jet down... don't float it there.Tero

That is correct, however it depends what type of plane you are flying. You need to "fly it down" because of the higher speeds you're flying at on the landing approach. In a slower, high-wing design, the only way to get it down to the ground is to increase the drag by flaring, since ground-effect tends to keep the wing flying. So in these aircraft, you need a little bit higher angle of attack on landing, which usually results in a higher pitch attitude. The aircraft I normally fly is a low-wing, with a relatively fast landing speed for its size and weight class. Depending on the landing technique, some guys are landing with a near 0 vertical speed, and some are landing at near 200 fpm. It all depends on how one carries out the flare. My technique is to fly the glideslope as low as I can at ref speed until I think I am about 3-5 feet from the runway, increase pitch a little to round it out, power levers flight idle, and touchdown. I usually, depending on weight, touch down with about 4-7 nose up, about 5 knots below ref. I don't watch the VSI after I flare, so I would guess the vertical speed is around 50-100 fpm. The aircraft I fly is relatively light, so updrafts and crosswinds sometimes come into play. However, floating for just a second or two at 110-130 knots may mean hundreds of feet of lost braking distance. Other factors such as contaminated runways, winds, and wake turbelence become a factor in the technique. I am not an engineer, but I would not recommend touching down in any aircraft greater than 500 fpm. Not only will it keep your chiropractor busy, it is bad for the structure of the airplane. The landing gear isn't the only thing buckling out there; the structure of the plane flexes as well, and can cause a lot of stress over time. (Even with the trailing-link landing gear.)

Thanks for the replies guys.......

Just reading the thread and trying to remember what my old CFI said..."Ground effect is generally 1/2 the wing-span" or something like that. The 231 I owned was a great plane to land if you found the "groove" and played it just so. I would someday like to see how I'd do with a trailing-link landing gear....se if it does make a difference.Another aspect on touchdown that was not covered is if you do "grease-it-on" in a commercial aircraft on a wet runway you will increase your chance to hydroplane the tires since instead of driving the wheels through the water you ski on top of it.Tim__757