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Beech Baron 58 Problem

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Hi,I tried to fly the default Baron on fs 2002. While climbing out of 4000 ft it seems that I have not enough power to maintain a positive climb rate. With full throttle, max prop rpm, full rich mixture and 300 fpm climb rate I lose speed above 4000 ft until I stall the aircraft. That shouldn't be normal?? At www.raytheonaircraft.com the is a good performance sheet that shows a cruising altitude of 10000 ft -- but how can I reach this altitude??Many thanks for any comment, Thomas.

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The problem is the full rich mixture. Start leaning! :) At 6,000' it's really noticeable if you're not leaning the mixture.At our airports here in the KSLC area which ranges from 4200-4600' msl, we're leaned before we even takeoff to get the performance we need. As an example, the real life Archer's mixture knob will usually be between 1/3 & 1/2 leaned before takeoff.L.Adamson

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Thanks a lot for this hint. The Raytheon spec sheet as well as the FS2002 aircraft manual or Werner Schott's checklist (manbb58.zip) don't say anything about mixture settings. Does leaning only depend on the altitute? Does anybody know a specification or a rule of thumb how to generally handle the mixture on the Baron 58?many thanks, Thomas.

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Sorry, but what do you mean with "feather proping"?Thomas.

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"Thanks a lot for this hint. The Raytheon spec sheet as well as the FS2002 aircraft manual or Werner Schott's checklist (manbb58.zip) don't say anything about mixture settings. Does leaning only depend on the altitute? Does anybody know a specification or a rule of thumb how to generally handle the mixture on the Baron 58?many thanks, Thomas." Thomas,Gasoline has a specific air/fuel mixture ratio of about 14.5 to 1 for the efficient operation of an engine. This means that you want 14.5 lbs of air for every 1 lb of gasoline. As the density altitude increases a given volume of air has less mass (the weight is lower for a specific volume). This means that you MUST reduce the weight of the fuel you allow in to match the reduced mass of the air.If you create an oxygen starved condition (too rich) you will note a loss of engine rpm, so by slowly leaning the mixture (pulling the mixture knob out) you should notice an increase in engine rpm (without changing your throttle settings). If you go too far (too lean) the combustion chamber environment because oxygen rich and once again your engine rpm will fall off and eventually the engine will quit, once you've gone too lean.So the rule of thumb is to slowly lean the mixture for maximum gain in rpm. Rather crude, but effective.The modern automobile has an on-board computer with a rather complex fuel mixture mapping program that handles all of this automatically, and these systems have proven to be very reliable and exceedingly efficient, but these fuel management computers haven't caught on in aviation yet, which is kind of surprising to me!All of us pilots that fly here on the west coast (I live in Reno, NV) must be very aware of the difference between actual altitude and density altitude and knowing the difference can and will save your life, period. Having sufficient lift and for efficient engine operation, you must be aware of your density altitude at all times!Bear!

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Bear, You will enjoy this and next issue of AOPA Journal in which are articles on mixture control. This month's article supports running on the slightly rich side of optimum--presumably for lower temperature and stress. Next month others will advocate running slightly lean of peak, my guess is to foster cleaner combustion and plugs as well as fuel savings. Looks like once again, we see life is a series of compromises and trade-offs (trades-off??) with plenty of people on each side of an argument.Dick Ball

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In flight you can take the EGT as an indicator of mixture. Too low, it's too rich: excess gasoline cools off the mixture. As you lean the mixture the temperature goes up and reaches a peak which indicates the proper mix. However, it's safer to adjust on the ascending side of the curve (a tad too rich).

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I still maintain that FS2K2 exaggerates the effect of mixture controls though. The plane should be able to climb through 4,000 or even 6,000 at full rich without choking. If density altitude is high or you have full tanks of fuel, maybe not, but I think the Baron is particularly unforgiving. Also, as a real 421 pilot pointed out, turbocharged engines shouldn't be affected by altitude because the correct mixture is assured, but MSFS doesn't seem to model that.David

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Like Bear I live in Reno, NV. The base altitude here is 4412 ft on the runway officially although in reality the runways here are sloped slightly, with dip in the middle as well. 'Full rich' is NOT used on take-off here, because of the altitude. Right form the time of engine start up the mixture is leaned. With experience one can simply yank the mixture control out an inch or so, but for the perfectionists there is a method to lean the mixture in the POH. For the Cessna 172 at the time of the runup (after taxiing to the runup area so the engine is warmed up) a certain number of engine and magneto checks are performed with engine rpm's at 1700.To precisely lean the mixture (already leaned grossly before engine start up) first set the rpms to 2000 then lean until rpm's drop slightly by turning the mixture knob. From there turn the knob toward rich settings with the thumb and index finger by quarter turns 3 or 4 times. The rpm's should go back up. And you're all set. Throttle back and continue the checklist. In flight, once you are 3000 ft or more above airport elevation it is wise to check the mixture again following POH defined procdures using the EGT as a guide. In planes without such equipement simply lean the mixture making sure rpm's and loss of engine power do not occur. Too lean and knocking in the engine could occur. Too rich and one uses alot of avgas and also one loses precious engine power. Again, normal take off procedures at mountain airports such as KRNO are done with a plane with a mixture already leaned from the time of start-up!Bob S Reno, NV

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Autofeather...Sorry about that, it was on the King Air 350 and not the Baron.But anyway, there is a setting (switch/lever) on the King Air that says AUTOFEATHER and its regarding the prop. I was wondering what AUTOFEATHER meant?

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>I still maintain that FS2K2 exaggerates the effect of >mixture controls though. The plane should be able to climb >through 4,000 or even 6,000 at full rich without choking. If >density altitude is high or you have full tanks of fuel, >maybe not, but I think the Baron is particularly >unforgiving. Also, as a real 421 pilot pointed out, >turbocharged engines shouldn't be affected by altitude >because the correct mixture is assured, but MSFS doesn't >seem to model that. >David MicroSoft messes up almost everything in its AC. I fixed the Fuel Air Mixture table soon after FS2K came out. In part, I referred to real Power vs Mixture curves. I also knew from my flying expence that engines don't almost die at 5000 ft with a full rich mixture. Yes, you reminded me that turbocharged engines shouldn't need to have the Mixture changed with altitude. Since the carburetor/fuel injector sees the same MAP regardless of altitude (below the critical altitude). MS claims many of it's MSFS staff fly real AC. I don't think I'd chance flying with anyone who doesn't know enough about real AC to get things right in their AC models. They also got the Carb Heat RPM drop way too high in FS2K2. Runway Rolling Friction is too high, etc. etc. etc.-Ron

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>> MicroSoft messes up almost everything in its AC. I fixed >the Fuel Air Mixture table soon after FS2K came out. In >part, I referred to real Power vs Mixture curves. I also >knew from my flying expence that engines don't almost die at >5000 ft with a full rich mixture. >> Ron, you mention that you fixed the curves. Is that something that any of us can do? If so, how? Thanks!David

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