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Guest TerryT

FS2002 Freezes

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I was hoping that after moving back to the Intel chip (P4 2.2 GHZ) from those hot (temp)AMDs (1800 XP +), I might not see those freeze/lock-ups while flying FS2002.Well that is not the case as this system locks up too. The only thing it does not do is to reboot on it's own as the last one did. The only common items brought over from the old system were the 3Com network card, the Sound Blaster Live audio card, the eVGA Gforce 3 Ti-500 video card, and the files off the hard drive (ghost program but still had to install Windows XP Home over it on the new hd. The motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-81RX with the Intel 845 chipset (400 MHz front bus). I also have 768 Mb of 333 MHz memory. Most lock-ups occur either after flying at high rates 2-16X and or if there is a lot of weather (clouds). I have tried every Nvidea driver from the 21.83 to the current 29.42. I have even gone to using the "On-board" audio chip trying to rule out the Soundblaster causing some IRQ conflicts.When the sim works, it works well but it is not very reliable. By the way, I have zero problems with no other program. Could I have a bad file or two in my FS2002 cd's or might it be something in the MS Windows XP? All I know is this is getting expensive buying/upgrading just to run a $70 simulator program.Any ideas on how I can fix the freeze/lock-ups?Terry

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Terry,Do you lockups occur with a fresh install of FS2k2? Nothing added to it, no addons, planes, etc. Just a plain jane install.Are you using a joystick/gamepad? I know on mine, if I use the force feedback settings my sim will just quit and stop working after about 5 mins or so. For me, I had to turn off the FFB until they come out with a driver thats XP certified.[br][br][div align=center][br][link:members.cox.net/fstimes/wetimage.html]Weather Image of the Day!

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I might suggest you un-install your sound card, and see if that fixes it...it worked for me. While you may not know your final solution, at least if you could isolate your problem you could focus in the right place.Bob B

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Josh, Thanks for the suggestion. Yes I do have a force feedback Logitech Wingman stick. I was kind of thinking the stick might be a problem in that I have a hard time turning left. I think something might be going bad inside. I had not thought about the force feedback program itself.Terry

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Bob,I have had the card in and out of the system several times. As in the post above, I will not rule out anything at this point. I do believe that for good system performance, all of the parts need to be balanced and working well with each other. When I worked on Air Force flight simulators back in the late 70's, sometimes we would try to verify a circuit card as being good/bad by swapping it out and putting it in the other sim. Sometimes that worked and other times not as each sim even though they were exactly the same, still would run at slightly different setttings due to the overall condition and performance of the hardware.Terry

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John, You to have many good ideas and directions to look in when trying to figure out this problem. I do used Adware to kill the junk. I have what sould be more than enoght memory. (768 Mb). My new computer case is aluminum with two fans in the front pulling the air in, two in the rear pulling it out, one on the side cover and one in the top. Those are are in addition to the CPU, video card and powersupply fans. The cpu will get hot 44-46C during FGS2002 operation but cools down to 39-40C when the program ends. My old AMD use to see the 53-56C temps durning the same operations. I am running Win XP Home and I am not quite sure what can be turned off via the control /alt /delete used to get to the resource monitor. Back in the old Win 98se days I would turn everything but the sys off and the program seemed to work ok. The mouse and keyboard along with the other periphs are the same as on the old system and the same ones that "Use" to work just fine when FS2002 was brand new out of the box. This problem happens both with and without 3rd party software running in FS2002.Terry

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I have a P4 2.2 system too which I built myself. No one has mentioned yet to delete your FS2002.cfg file in the main FS2K2 directory and restart FS2K2. When I reinstalled FS2K2 after building my system, I had freezes too and simply deleted the cfg file and restarted. It froze again soon after so I deleted it again. The second time it worked and I have had absolutely no freezes since then. Hope you get your problem figured out.Jim

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For clearing startup programs, you'd have to look at whats loading via the registry keys and startup folder to get a clear idea of what to terminate...Another suggestion...pull all of your memory except for the first 256 megs... If FS2002 isn't unstable, add another 256 megs. If it is, swap out the chip, and repeat the test. That's a good way of finding out whether you have a rogue chip. I had one once that passed every test I could throw at it, but it caused FS2000 to fail a couple of years ago. Removed it, and the problem was cleared.Also, turn off Hardware T&L in FS2002's display settings. I find that can make the sim more unstable. Set your AGP app to 64 megs, if it isn't already. Last, scan the forum for a thread I posted on the 30th about a reg key fix for AMD users. Perhaps it would work for the Pentium as well--it's worth a try.I'd cycle through these suggestions one at a time until you find something that works. As a last resort, turn off AGP texturing in DirectX...Having said all that, I remember several months ago, someone had a terrible time with 2k2--tried everything, and ended up with some type of odd peripheral problem as the cause. Programs shouldn't be this flaky--but I think the problem is that 2k2 uses so many system resources, that any compromise in the system is going to cause it to fail. In your case, I doubt user error is the cause, as it sounds like you know what to check. That's why I'm strongly leaning towards the RAM as the culprit (unless you had the problem with an old and new set of chips).-John

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Jim, Interesting idea. I have reloaded FS2002 a zillion times and completely remove all old folders each time. That should be doing the same thing as you suggestedwith the cfg file, right? I just tryed to fly the default 747 (cargo) from MCI to JFK. At 23 NM from JFK, I got several messages saying that some scenery files were missing and after I cleared those messages, the system locked. I was trying the suggestion from above as to turn off tghe force feedback and I do beleive the aircraft flies much nicer in the mode.Terry

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John, It could be memory problems and I did that same troubleshooting technique on the old system. This system is suspose to have 3 totally different sticks (faster)installed. It is funny (not), that this only occurs when flying FS2002. It might be the only time I really stress the system to the max but if it were a component, periph, etc., you would think that this would occur at any time, right?Terry

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Just deleting the fs2k2.cfg is all you need to do. I don't know what you mean by deleting "old" files. The fs2002.cfg file will rebuild itself when you restart FS2K2. It appears though after reading your post that you are missing some scenery files and/or your scenery.cfg file in your main FS2K2 dir is corrupt. (When you reinstalled Win XP, did you install FS2K2 over your old installation?) Check your scenery.cfg and ensure the Area numbers, beginning at Area.001 are in numerical sequence. The Area number must also match the Layer number for each area. I found Area.0019 did not match the Layer number after I did a clean install of FS2K2 on two occasions. If your scenery.cfg file is not corrupt, and deleting the fs2002.cfg file and restarting does not work, you should probably remove FS2K2 completely and, whatever is leftover from the uninstall, move the folders to a temp folder then reinstall FS2K2.I too have turned off the force feedback feature but have had it operating successfully with it on. I doubt that is your problem. I had scenery errors in the past but not enough to lock up the system. I just clicked OK and the sim continued to run. I found out that I had deleted some default aircraft and reinstalled them from the FS2K2 CD. That solved the scenery error messages. Hope this helps!Jim

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"It appears though after reading your post that you are missing some scenery files"Not necessarily true. He reported the error just outside of NYC, and FS2002 was shipped with a bug that causes the sim to report missing scenery files as you approach Jersey, and also as you approach Stonehenge. Scenery detail has to be maxed, and the bug for NYC can be fixed with an exclude entry I posted (it's in the tips page at FSGateway). The one for Stonehenge can be fixed with a file.-John

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Right.....I'm upgrading my PC to the following this weekend (if everything works this second time round after a faulty motherboard):ASUS A7V333 motherboardAthlon 2100XP+512MB 2700DDR333 Samsung memory431W PSUGF3 Ti 500 TDIf you look closely @ my spec., it is quite similar to yours. I've done quite a lot of research into this before i actually purchased anything. The main aspects that i was concerned about was, if your going to increase your computer speed you'll be expecting an increase in the temperature.Firstly other than trying to load FS on from fresh to see if it sorts out the problem, if no go.....*Reinstall FS from fresh, install the things you've had working previously with it, and monitor FS after adding each individual addon. Doing it by this step by step method can help you find where the problem hides - it could be from an addon you have.*Check your computer CASE is large enough to provide enough cooling to your system components.*Make sure your PSU (Power Supply Unit) @ the rear of the computer is at least 450W. The reason for this is as the increased speed causes higher temps. , you need to combat those temps by providing your computer with enough cooling which comes from these highly powered PSUs. I'm using a 431W which has 2 fans which pump in more of the cool air.During my research i found, that having an inadiquate PSU e.g of 250-300W can cause your computer to crash/freeze/sudden reboots etc.. and let alone damage your new PC hardware chips.*If this isn't still enough look into other areas of cooling for example heatsink strips for your memory modules and other fans for the case.*Buy a utilities program like Norton System Works which sorts out problems with your PC, retrieves lost clusters/files, makes your computer run smoother and faster etc. I'm using this and i haven't had to format my computer for about a year now because this program sorts everything out. You ever had a time when your computer rebooted unexpectedly when you were doing something in Windows, and as you go back in, you can't get into Windows any more??This could more than likely be due to essential files that have been deleted by that reboot. Norton System Works detects all this and retreives these files/lost clusters etc and prevents these sort of issues being solved by formatting your HD. Hope all this helps. History has DEFINETLY taught me a few things of how to run and maintain a computer.Will

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Jim, When I delete FS2002 I first let Win XP do it's thing. Then I remove the remaining folder manually and do a "Clean" re-install.I will look at the area numbers to see if they are missing. Do the area and layers numbers need to match, i.e. area 0019 and layer 0019?Terry

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John,Thanks,I will go over and take a look at your post.Terry

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Will, Ref my response near the top of this thread to the case and cooling capacity of my new system. (6 case fans) I do have a 450W powersupply and someone earlier stated they put in a 600W to correct their problem.Terry

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"History has DEFINETLY taught me a few things of how to run and maintain a computer."Fortunately, my profession (LAN/WAN & Desktop Admin) has taught me the same, and then some :)I agree with just about everything you've said (see my thread referenced in my first reply)...But I have to disagree with the Norton System Works suggestion--only because I've seen my share of issues with some of the dll's Symantec likes to drop in the background. FS2002 is best run on a clean system. Introducing yet another set of dll's running in the background will only serve to hinder FS....Back to where we agree--I have to believe it's a combination of memory, power supply, or heat related issues. The thread's author has pretty much ruled out heat, but the power supply could be suspect if it's been used in both systems. It's been 'oft said, even in this thread, that FS2002 is the only app that causes these issues. But if you review all the anecdotal reports on the usenet regarding software problems, they almost always seem to cascade into one app over the rest. And usually, it's the most memory intensive, cpu and gpu intensive application."You ever had a time when your computer rebooted unexpectedly when you were doing something in Windows, and as you go back in, you can't get into Windows any more??"This is an interesting thought, only because there is a fix for this under Windows 9x. Can't recall whether it's been available for NT/2000/XP, and it most likely isn't needed. Under Windows 9x, it's prudent to disable write behind caching. With it enabled, Windows will cache various disk writes, flushing them at certain intervals, and at shutdown. Problem is, losing the power or locking up during a Windows session can cause these cached disk writes to be lost. They are meant to speed the system, but can create all sorts of havoc if you lock your system or lose your power at the wrong time. I've had one test system running Win 9x for 5+ years...never had an issue of lost data with this tweak applied...-John

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Terry,To answer your questions:"When I delete FS2002 I first let Win XP do it's thing. Then I remove the remaining folder manually and do a "Clean" re-install." Yes."I will look at the area numbers to see if they are missing. Do the area and layers numbers need to match, i.e. area 0019 and layer 0019?"Yes. The area numbers will be there, they just may not be in sequence. I think I had Area.0019 and Layer=18 after I did a clean install of FS2K2. Jim

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It looks like we all have similar problems yet we all seem to have a different fix. I am still trying to figure out what the "Common" thread is and then I believe we "Will" have that fix. For now I would still go with the FS2002 program itself along with what ever version on WIndows we might be using. Has any one tried the new "Lindows" operating system? It is suppose to be able to run windows programs with the stability of Unix. http://www.lindows.com/Terry

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