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Guest ielchitz

PIC CHALLENGE - How would you fly this approach ?

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Guest ielchitz

It constantly amazes me how so many people use different methods to achieve the same results. I love hearing little tidbits of what people do, I have adopted many - and others I have tried and thrown away.Here's one for all of you....Consider the approach chat for the Los Angeles Stadium Visual Runway 24R below

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Guest KB

Ian,In this scenario I would immediatly aim to get low and slow. After SMO, heading select and FLCH. Would probably need speedbrakes as well - I have never tried the approach but looking at the chart I would like to be at 180KT with flaps 5 by the SMO 9 DME. After turning base and calling ATC, further down to 2000 feet. By now I would have the SMO R-084 tuned and the ND in VOR Rose mode.Passing the radial, it's speed to 160KT, flaps 30 and autopilot off. As I approach the turn to final, gear down and final approach speed. When aligned with the runway it's time for the landing checks, and at 1000ft on the RA I do my final check - if I'm not on the centreline or if I'm much too high or low it's a missed. Otherwise, I'll take her down provided nothing else happens.How does it sound? I'll have to try that approach soon...maybe my description is impossible to accomplish for one reason or another. It's kind of hard to imagine a flight like this, but quite interesting too ;-).Regards,Karl

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Guest

Excellent post!I will be trying this tonight for sure.

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Guest MB327

Hmmm,Quick addition tells me I have 24 miles to loose 6500 feet and about -40 knots. (SADDE-5 miles-BAYST-10 miles-SMO(@ 7000)-9 miles-base turn (@ 3500))OK, up with the brakes, reset MCP altitude for 7000, hit FLCH, 1 notch of flapsOpen Fix page, enter SMO with LSK1, enter 068/9 with LSK2, enter 084 with LSK3DEP ARR page select 24R at KLAXNow this IS A VISUAL, right, so I am not going to get excited about creating a series of FMC fixes with crossing altitudes. What's that saying "KISS"Now looking at my altitude as I get nearer to SMO and my rate of decent, I will start notching back the airspeed adding flaps and whatever else it takes to make the restrictions.Just before crossing SMO, HDG SEL 068Passing SMO, MCP altitude set to 3500, go to V/S and adjust for SMO 9 at 3500, reset MCP IAS to 210.Now somewhere in here the AP and AT goes off. I am flying the SMO 068 outbound on the EHSI MAP page set on a 20 (and a bit later, a 10) mile range. Decending, using the EHSI cue for 3500 at the base turn and slowing to 180. By now I would hope my speed and altitude would allow the speed brakes to come down. Looking for the Coliseum and the freeway out the window and using the fix data on the EHSI, I am ready to hand fly the rest of the approach. Right to 160 passing the Coliseum (intersection of the 9 mile circle and the SMO 068 green dashed lines.) My EHSI (green) fix data (SMO 084 dashed line) shows me point to make the 45 degree right turn. Gear down, adding flaps as necessary. By this time I should have the field.For a missed approach my inclination is to turn right and climb to ?? for SMO. But I think I would go for the RAFFS intersection at 2000 and let approach make the call.Yes Ian, I can think of about 3 other ways to do this but given the bang bang need starting down and keeping in mind that this is a visual approach, this would be my choice.

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Guest

hi everyone i see on the last picture of the EHSI a green dotted circle in the center of the EHSIwhat is it? thank you

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Guest

The green dotted circle is created in the FIX page by setting a waypoint/fix, then applying a distance around the fix...the FMC will draw a dotted circle...useful for all kinds of fun stuff.There is a good example of how to use the distance circle in the manual.Rob

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Guest WorkingStiff

The circle is drawn using the FIX page.In the picture above it represents a distance of 9 miles from the SMO VOR.

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Guest Charly

Andrea:You can see in the FMC BRG 068 / DIST 9 of SMO FixThe green circle is the distance (DIST) of the Fix in this case 9 nm around SMO VOR.The green line is the radial of the SMO VOR in this case 2 lines one for the 068 radial and other for the 084 radialRegards :-waveCharly - BAW062

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Guest Charly

WOW!3 answers in 5 minutes!Who said we don't help people in the PIC forum? :-lolRegards :-waveCharly - BAW062

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Guest

It's been fairly quiet here lately - not only because the PIC767 is a bullet-proof product that requires little support, but because we are all anxiously awaiting the next PIC release...this is the calm before the storm me thinks ;-) I, for one, can not wait!Rob.

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Guest WorkingStiff

Actually it's been very boring....Hey Rob!

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Guest

You are right Stiffy - we need someone to kick some a-s and stir things up...this forum is turning into a sleeper.

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Guest WorkingStiff

LOL...I don't know if I'd go that far although sometimes the old Stiffy is tempted to re-emerge.I actually installed the Dreamfleet 737 I had purchased about a year ago last night but I fell asleep before I could fly it. :-lol

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Guest

Funy you mention the DF737 - I have been playing with it the last few nights after my real world flights to Atlanta in the 737-500...the DF737 panel is ok by me, it ain't the PIC, but it is neat, some things it has (FMC wise) that are better, the sounds/voices are nice, some things are not as good as PIC however...overall it has made a nice change, but it is always good to run home to mama - PIC that is ;-) I too have had the DF737 for over a year but never really got around to it until I flew the real bird and decided to peak at it again.

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Guest WorkingStiff

Now if I can only log on to Flightsim.com and download Mike Toussaint's COA soundpack for the 737 I'll be good to go. I'll probably play around with the 737 this weekend.Back on topic, I agree with Karl's method. I tried this approach but it's just too busy to be punching data into the FMC.

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Guest MB327

OK Ian, get ready to open LAX_APP. We are 1100 miles DTG to KLAX. My route, PHNL-EBBER-R577-ELKEY.SADDE6 sets me up just fine for your Stadium Visual. My ETA is 2400ZRob,Get ready, set, go... meet you crossing VTU. You can fly down from SFO.The rest of you,, come on and get going. Any route you can set up with the SADDE6 arrival will do. Winds 270 at 14Clouds few at 1700

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Guest ielchitz

Mike - don't see you around on Servinfo...I'm headed there out of Oakland in my bus currently (YES, I said "B-U-S" - I need to change it up every now and then).KLAX 172050Z 27014KT 6SM HZ FEW017 18/13 A2995That's dicey for the Stadium visual - its best when you can get a bead on the field while still inbound to Santa Monica.If you are going to be flying it in this wx - best of luck to you - you'll need to use the ND to pick up the centerline before you can spot the field - which sort of defeats the purpose of the exercise...Oh well.. Hopefully the wx will clear up for this evening.Ian E.

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Guest MB327

On the ground now. Thanks Ian for the post and providing yet another challenge for the PIC. We done good this evening and had great time. As you suggested, the weather was little marginal for a visual this evening. Having the request for the Stadium Visual in the remarks section of the flightplan, and perhaps because of a private heads up to the center controller from you, the center controller offered to relay the request for a visual to approach as I was about to start my initial decent 80 miles out from VTU. And before one of you eagle eyed guys point out as a mistake, the altimeter really was 29.92 at 2400Z this evening at LAX.After handoff to approach at VTU, approach advised to expect the Stadium Visual to 24R and I was ready. Having been set up for the SADDE6 arrival, It was nice to see that SMO 09 was already set as a fix on the FMC. With only a few quick clicks on the FMC and punching in the numbers on the radio, we were set with the display information for the visual.I took a second at this point to snap a single screen shot (see below)of the panel without any pausing and then jumped right back to work. You can't see the FIX page on this shot but it was set the same as in my screenshot from earlier today. This is really two images because of file size limitations on the uploads.Back to flying:- Reselected 180 as the airspeed on the MCP- Selected HDG SEL crossing SMO which I already had set at 067 (in error, so I had to change to 068)- Selected 3500 as the target altitude and adjusted V/S setting- Select Autobrakes 2- Gave the aircraft a few more seconds to trim out and the OFF with the AP and AT.Now comes the fun part. That Coliseum comes up real fast on you with a 30 knot tailwind. Right turn for short base and then 45 degrees right for intercepting the centerline. Gear down, flaps 25 slowing to 145. I had to use the ND and the EHSI MAP to make the turn to final as I was unable to pick up the field till crossing the outer marker. Visibility had dropped to 7 miles so not the best test for the approach.Very cool! Thanks again Ian

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Guest

I have done it it is fantastic ... and I hand fly the darn thing...this is one of the earliest approaches I tried in FS98, FS2000 and in SubLogic ATP. I found it in a book called The Art of Instrument Flying, Second Edition, by J.R. Williams, Tab Practical Flying Series!Great book...I advise all pilots and sim-pilots as well to purchase it some things are dated but the practicum for controlling an aircraft in IMC is excellent!!!! Good stuff!Thanks for bring this topic up!!! A really fun approach!!!RegardsTony

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