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Guest MB327

Oceanic Procedures

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Guest MB327

I need some help gentlemen. It seems that every now and then, when I fly an oceanic route on VATSIM, I get a FSS or "Radio" controller on line who insists on throwing me curve balls. You see, I am just not very well versed in oceanic procedures. I get by somehow and have picked up on how to relay position reports but I still am not sure if I am doing that correctly. Mark McGrath's "etopsv2.zip", http://ftp.avsim.com/library/sendfile.php?DownloadID=9720 is an excellent resource for ETOPS procedures. But what I am looking for is a tutorial or protocol for radio communications procedures. "ATC says this, you say that." On my last flight over the Pacific, OAK_FSS wanted me to acknowledge something and I had no clue what it was - still don't know. It was one of those aviation oceanic acronyms that I can't even remember today.So to keep me from feeling stupid next time over the pond, please point me to a good resource or contact me sometime and get me trained.

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Guest

ETOPS procedures and oceanic procedures go together, but have separate concepts you need to master. The best guide to oceanic flying online that I've found is on VATSIM-UK's site. http://www.vatsim-uk.net/vatsim-uk/. Click on "OCEANIC OCA" at the bottom left, and you'll get information on VATSIM's NAT tracks and procedures, along with a step by step tutorial.Note: Giving position reports with PIC is quite easy. Go to the PROG page and select Position Report at LSK6L. It gives you all the information you need to provide to the controller.Jon (KSEA)

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Guest MB327

Right on the mark Jon. And yes, the PIC FMC was heaven sent on those position reports. Thanks a bunch.Now to find that mystery acronym...

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Guest MB327

Found it, "SELCAL" Now what does it mean,, reading on...Thanks Ryno

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Guest MB327

OK, it was "SELCAL" I was being asked to respond with. Still don't know why since my digital version of a B763 only is equipped with a transponder. Hmmm, maybe I had an anal retentive controller or something. Well 20 pages of reading down, 200 more to go and I will be ready for my next crossing, NOT! Thanks guys!

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Guest

I'm glad you found it ;-)I'm still not sure why the controller asked you for a SELCAL on VATSIM.

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Guest

SELCAL - Select Call I beleive....each aircraft has a SELCAL...for VATSIM, Iam guessing he wants you to ".msg" using his callsign...SELCAL workaround.

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Guest Martin

>I'm still not sure why the controller asked you for a SELCAL >on VATSIM.I agree, this is a little odd, but not more odd than making position reports over the NAT (since the NAT airspace is a radar environment in VATSIM).Another good site for information about the NAT and the RVSM and MNPS airspace ishttp://www.nat-pco.orgMartinIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

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Guest ilh

Mike, there's always the good old "unable".Lee Hetherington (KBOS)

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Guest KB

Many pilots like to use Roger Wilco for chatting while flying the longhauls...so that's one reason. Besides it's kinda cool with SELCAL checks and so on...so I don't see why we shouldn't use it? Besides, the NAT is as much radar as you like. I prefer to turn radar off completely and control with a pen and a paper. A completely different challenge from working ESSA_APP ;-)Though, I must say, working Shanwick is not often worthwhile. Very few planes actually contact you, and fewer yet know the correct procedures (no offence Mike :-)) which means I can't do much for them unless I first spend 30 minutes on a chatbox. Oh well...And Mike,This is how I use SelCal when I control Shanwick: At intial contact, I ask the pilot for his SelCal code. The code consists of two letter pairs, each letter representing a unique tone. The first letter in each pair must be alphabetically before the second. (AB-CD or KL-BV for example) Once I get a code, I send a private message to the pilot, something like this: SelCal--->ABCD and the pilot should then respond with "SelCal ok" or something like that. If I need to contact the pilot again, I just drop a SelCal and he should then check in to my voice with a cheerful "Shanwick, American 327 responding to SelCal. ;-)Obviously this is not very realistic, but it works well for VATSIM. The Santa Maria Oceanic guys are working (I think they're still working on it) a realistic SelCal software. Stay tuned...If you want to know something else about oceanic controlling, feel free to ask.Regards,Karl

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Guest

Or when doing a SELCAL you could just play your modem noise over RW, very similar sounds.

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Guest MB327

This clears it up a WHOLE lot for me. I can certainly appreciate being free of monitoring oceanic control service for long periods on RW. Your outline is exactly what I was lacking in understanding control's expectations. Please drop me a short email sometime so I can grab your email address as a future resource.Thanks for your help.

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Guest MB327

WOW!Everything here from outlines and operations manuals, to tutorials and slide shows.THANKS EVERYONE...

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wanna SIMULATE SELCAL??real simple.... go get your telephone and START pressing buttons withg the mic set up to the earpiece of the phone..... 4 tones 2 secs per tone - then repest 1 time Richard GreenVATUSA4Events and VA Director

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Guest MB327

Andrew,Very good dialog transcript at that link. Excellent example of "I say this, ATC says that"Thank you,

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Guest Martin

Hej, Karl. I have a question! :-)How do we, as virtual pilots, know what SELCAL code to use? Is there a logic behind what codes are used, and if so how does it work? (Reg number, airline, something?).Also on the subject of SELCAL real world vs. virtual: In the real world HF frequencies are often quite noisy, and with SELCAL the pilots can turn down the volume.BTW, as I was preparing for bed last night, I switched on the tv. (NEVER do that!) On Discovery there was a programme about an Air Canada flight over the pond, and they explained the NAT procedures in detail - the different tracks, HF, SELCAL, position reports, Shannon + Prestwick = Shanwick etc. And they had footage from the different ATC facilities as well as the cockpit of flight 876, which was a 767. I didn't learn anything new but it was interesting anyway. :-lolMartinIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

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Guest KB

Hejsan ;-),On VATSIM you can just pick any code, obviously it makes no difference. If and when the SELCAL client is finished the process will be different but I don't know too much about that.In real life I guess each plane has it's unique code, it's supposedly regulated so that two airplanes with the same code will never be in the same airspace at the same time, though I don't really know.Regards,Karl

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Guest Martin

Tack for the answer Karl.Are you a member of VATUK and their Oceanic division? It would be nice to have Oceanic control a little more often - that would make me get around to finally doing some "real" flights! Perhaps a schedule or a booking system where pilots can see when Shanwick will be online?And is VATSIM still using the old fixed tracks?Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

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Guest ielchitz

AFAIK - VATSIM is still using the fixed NAT tracks - but you are certainly under no circumstances "required" to use them.I personally try and use the real NATS as they are published every day.Ian.

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Vatsim uses FIXED nat tracks to this day for one simple reason....people would be criss crossing the skies all over the place - if OCENAIC is controlled you are requested to use a fixed nat or go above 410 ( or disconnect ) but thats only if youd endanger traffic.Richard GreenVATUSA4Events and VA Director

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Guest Martin

Why not instead use the fixed tracks when no Oceanic control is online? (Remember that the fixed tracks ensure separation even if both westbound and eastbound tracks are used at the same time - as far as I remember anyway.) And use the real daily tracks when ATC is online.Does that make any sense?Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

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Guest KB

Just file any route you like and ATC will approve it unless it results in conflicts. Remember that many airlines file random routes IRL, they are only required to use the track system during the peak hours in the morning and the evening.Regards,Karl

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