Hello again, I

Remember, in sloppy conditions (and rain and gusty crosswinds certainly do count as sloppy), your goal is not to grease the landing. You need to put the bird firmly on the deck, get the spoilers out to kill your lift, and let the autobrakes start doing their work.Now, granted, you don't want to land so hard that you break anything, but when conditions get poor, don't worry about trying to do a perfect flare, etc. You never know when that next wind gust or microburst might hit, so get it on the runway ASAP.Jon (KSEA)

I thought you wanted to add half the gust component but none of the steady wind component, so Vref + 5 + 8/2 = Vref + 9, but others are much more knowledgable here than I am.Lee Hetherington (KBED)

November is right, it's half the headwind and the whole gust (max 20 knots). And minimum Vref+5 of course.There are some other techniques too, like "minimum GS", but it's quite complicated I think - requires a lot more math. ;-)Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

It is acceptable to increase Vref by 1/2 of the headwind component...Plus the full wind gusts value (if applicable) -But I beleive the maximum Vref correction is Vref + 20...

"causing me to either bounce or make a hard landing (it looks horrible!! :-( )."november678x,there's no such thing as a good landing in LGA :D.(or as my Dad used to tell me: "any landing you're thrown clear of is a good one.")BBall------------------------Capt. William "BBall" BallBoeing 757, Northwest AirlinesSenior Editorwww.frugalsworld.com

hello,This may change from one company to another, but generaly speaking, I do confirm the above mentioned formula:Vref+5+KveKve=1/2wind+the full gust.note, Vref+5+Kve<20kts.it is the whole calculation that has to be <20kts.Cpt Cyrille de Lattre

>there's no such thing as a good landing in LGA :D. >>(or as my Dad used to tell me: "any landing you're thrown >clear of is a good one.") I could have not said it better. LGA is a pain :-hang. I am still trying to get the flare right with this excess speed. Applying 1/2 headwind and all the gust is giving me a higher speed and a lower nose attitude, which in turn causes me to float and land half way down the rwy if I put the nose higher than 2.5 degrees. I usually cut the throttles around 30-50 feet flying at vref, with this higher approach speed do you start retarding the throttle sooner to vref before touch down which then will give you the right nose up attitude for touchdown? Thank You.:-wave

>there's no such thing as a good landing in LGA . >>(or as my Dad used to tell me: "any landing you're thrown >clear of is a good one.") I have personally witnessed Mike Bevington grease the Expressway Visual 31 many times there while flying on Vatsim. I personally barely survive my landings there - somehow 327 manages to do it as cool as a cucumber every time (he does the same thing with the DCA River Visual 19 all the time too - while I am in jeopardy of braking my rudder pedals when I apply FULL RIGHT when I finally realize which runway I am supposed to be landing on).Ya - LGA is not easy in a 767 - for some real fun see if you can put her down in Burbank, CA flying the "4 Stacks Visual 15". Now there's a challenge for you all!!! Let's see who can manage it .Ian Elchitz CYWG

Here is an explanation of Vref from a major Airline's operating procedures:Vref - Landing Reference Speed. - The target speed at the runway threshold for those conditions when gust or shear pads are not needed.Vref + 5 knots. - The normal approach speed.As you see from this, in a calm wind the five knot additive is meant to be bleed off just before reaching the runway threshold to arrive there at Vref. Maintaining the additive until over the runway will make it harder to touchdown in the target area. (No less than the 500 foot stripe and no more than the 1500 foot stripe)If half of a steady wind componet has been added it should be bleed off on short final to arrive at the runway threshold at Vref + half the wind gust. The reason that the gust additive is retained until touchdown is insure adequate control response to overcome gusts.Hope this helps.Ed Weber a.k.a tallpilotRetired 757 driver