767-400 (Amended)

[Guest gremel]

I should have further elaborated and stated that my choices for the real sim are the 737 NG, 767-300 or 747-400. I can choose anyone of these. I guess what I'm really interested in right now is what existing software today is available that would best benefit me to make the right choice so I have as much background as possible before entering the real level D sim..Anybody care to comment given the existing software.....I own the PMDG737NG 600/700, PS1.3a and obviously the existing PIC767.Regards & looking forward to some advise and/or opinions..Jack

[Guest Lenny Zaman]

there are things you can preparee.g. cockpit 'flows' meaning knowing by heart what switches to flip when entering a phase(f.e. before taxi flow...) there are also things you can not prepare fore.g. CRM and the 'sim immersion'CRM is just impossible with a PC....sim immersion... you'll see when you get in the simit's 1 thing to point and click a mouse on a screen, it's another to reach out to the right position with your hand and flip the swich in the right way...Perhaps this is not very clear but it'll be when your time comes....At least that's what i found out on my first level-D flight ;)Cheers

[Guest gremel]

Lenny,Thanks for the reply....I was also just wandering about the transition from mouse to the actual hand switching movements etc. I've got a zillion hours in on PS1.3a, PIC767 & the NG, but hope I don't get too overwhelmed by the [spread-out enviroment] of the real thing. One other draw back will be that my co-pilot will be my wife. This in itself could possibly lead to a divorce.They told me things would be a lot easier if I had another person in the cockpit with me. Well, I guess I'll have to start CRM on her using the (RFP V2 & the call-outs) avail. with the Classic S-Combo software.Can anybody out there tell me which aircraft would be a little less intimidating? Choices were the 767-300, 737-700, 747-400. I think the 744 maybe way too much to handle.. Opinions, comments, remarks anybody!!Regards,jack

[Guest mmcevilley]

>Can anybody out there tell me which aircraft would be a little>less intimidating? Choices were the 767-300, 737-700, 747-400.>I think the 744 maybe way too much to handle.. >>Opinions, comments, remarks anybody!!>>Regards,>jackJack, From another perspective ...The least intimidating one will be the one you are already most comfortable with and the one that you enjoy flying the most. If you have the choice - then go with the one that you find most satisfying and enjoyable in your home flight sim experience. You will then reap greater rewards and satisfaction when you come out of the experience and apply what you learned to your sim flying.BTW: I play guitar and there is always the "which guitar should I buy" question. After heated debates on largely "religious" issues the answer is always - "the one that you enjoy playing the most" ...BTW2: From your last statement it sounds like the 744 is already out of the question ... ;-)-michael

[Guest Mark McG]

Jack,It all comes down to which one you would feel most comfortable with, and which ever one you feel you have the best knowledge of. For this reason I would choose the 767.

[Guest gremel]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm leaning towards the 67 myself. I wonder if the full motion sim is as slippery to slow down as the PIC version?? I'm hoping to use VNAV with speed & altitude constraints until lined up with the loc/gs and hand fly it in. That should take some of the load off trying to slow the thing down to a manageable level. Regards again,jack

[teropa]

Jack,I have ~ 30 hours in a 757 sim and another 15 hours on other sims (DC-9, MD-83, MD-11). Being a PIC fanatic for years and getting to try the simulator, these are the things that will surprise you:- the cockpit is small. All the controls are nicely laid out, and making changes is very easy and quick. However, if you have no real flying experience (do you?) it might feel difficult, since things are not before your eyes on a monitor, but spread around you.- The control forces required to hold a 45 deg bank on level flight at 200 kts on a 757 are BIG. You have to pull like there's no tomorrow, and it is NOT light. You will need to use force in there. However, the control forces are not that bad with less bank and less speed.- The gauges are below your neck, and the visual is right in front of you. You have to learn to look "through" the gauges when for example doing a manual approach on the real thing. You have to quickly move your head to the gauges and back to what you see outside. On a PC sim this is a lot easier since the field of vision is able to capture both gauges and the outside view at the same time.- The real jet sims (and jet aircraft too, I would presume :)) do NOT take well on flying in out of trim configurations. You have to use correct thrust, trim and attitude to keep the aircraft under solid control. If you loose one of these from the game, the going will get tough. The real jets are a really pain to fly, if you have to fight the aircraft. For this reason changes in thrust and trim should always be rather small and the flying "iterative". Large and abrupt changes will surprise you.- The real sim is, surprise surprise, very sensitive on the pitch side. All of the sims I've flown have been more sensitive than I would've imagined. So hand flying the approaches will need a lot of "finetuning" often. Many PC sims are too "damped" in this regard.Finally, to answer your question on what to fly. Fly the one you KNOW the best. The one you don't have to learn at the same time. So you can concentrate on learning to adapt to the things I mentioned above, and not some button-pushing mystics.PIC767 is an excellent training and familiarization tool. If you can master PIC and have some real flying experience or PPL, you will have little trouble in operating a real 757/767 sim.rgds,Tero

[Guest gremel]

Tero,Thanks for your very imformative comments in regard to flying the 67. I'm a little apprehensive when you stated: "you have to use correct thrust, trim, and attitude to keep the a/c under solid control." It makes me feel that I don't want to attempt manual flight at all in this thing as I do with my PIC software and yes, I do have a few hours in a Cessena 172 and some glider experience. Other than that, I'm whistling 'dixie'..Just a few questions for you:How would you approach flying the 763 or 764 if it was your first time in a [level D]?? For example, would you rely heavily on the autopilot after takeoff etc. or would you request a takeoff scenerio and a brief level out to a given altitude and then ask for vectors back to the airport to shoot an ILS to the designated Rwy?? I'm not sure what they throw at you or if your supposed to request what you want to do or accomplish. I've got an hour so I don't have that much time..What would you study more of or prepare more for on your first sim ride?Also, are there performance tables that you should study prior to the sim ride and if so, where can I find them?Thanks for all of your input so far and looking forward to any add'l comments or suggestions and or reading mat'l..Regards,JackThanks for anything you can offer.Regards,jack

[Guest Dodiano]

Small answer for you just feel the plane and let it fly.Roberto

[teropa]

Jack,My comment only means that when you fly it manually, you need to try to keep it trimmed or nearly trimmed. In practise this means:- you don't end up in situations where you are pushing like there's no tomorrow to get the nose down to follow the glideslope (this shouldn't happen anyway :))- you don't fight the aircraft's will to climb or descend with the yoke only. If you change thrust, it often requires a change in trim as well. If you don't do this, then it's easy to end up having to pull or push a lot.- avoiding situations where the airspeed fluxuates rapidly from slow to fast (for example when holding altitude on level flight, you need to add some good thrust to maintain speed, altitude and a steep bank angle. Then when you level the wings, the aircraft will accelerate away if you don't manage the thrust carefully). Remember that the needed control forces are very different in slow and fast. So, if the aircraft speed fluxuates a lot, you'll have a "different" beast on your hands all the time.Then a couple of things:- don't overtrim, don't fly the aircraft with the elevator trim. If you need to put the nose up or down, do it with the control column. If you are changing from one flight regime to another (climb -> level -> descend), then trim.- think ahead of the aircraft. If you are planning on doing something, quickly think about how it will change the a/c trim and what you need to do about it. Try to guess what it will do after you make the changes. Then it's a lot easier to manage the actual situation.If it was my first time, I'd do as many takeoffs and approaches as possible. Also, take 10 minutes and just fly the aircraft at, say, 5000ft and try turns, climbs and descends, and see how the power affects the aircraft. You will be a lot better off if you do this.The required speed tables are inside the simulator, you don't need to study any material beforehand. If you know PIC well, the only thing that'll give you gray hair in the sim is the manual flying part, which IS the most exciting part. rgds,Tero

[Guest gremel]

Tero,Many thanks for your replies to my questions. I've been flying PIC ever since it came out and have many hours of enjoyment from it. I can't wait for the V2 edition. I found a site that sheds a little more light on the 67. It can be found at: www.767.org.ukI'm sure you and others already know of it, but for those who don't have it, it has alot of interesting material on it.Thanks again for all your help.Jack

[teropa]

Jack,I'm glad I could help, if even a little.I hope you enjoy your ride in the sim, it will be a really unforgettable experience!Tero