Hi all..I was a little disappointed today with my Vatsim experience. I had a few hours off and decided to do an online flight from EGFF to EDDM. I have fsnav and used it to provide my flightplan.Those that use it know that it is an excellent programme but it does not do the "short form" flight plan as far as i know. I then exported it to fs2004, PMDG fms and squawk box. I spend about half an hour getting everything ready.(I chose EGFF as i could see a controller was there)The controller asked to me re file my flight plan with what looked to me like the "short form" flight plan and was rather different to the one provided by fsnav. I am beginning to think that maybe ive wasted my money on fsnav as the flight plans it produces don't seem good enough for Vatsim controllers...do they all want to only accept short form flightplans? I tried desperately to change my FMS to conform with the request but i just dug myself deeper and deeper into dispair as i didnt have all the waypoints and knowledge to type everything in...so I had no choice...I logged off and flew my original flightplan offline and although it was fun it wasn't the same as having human ATC along the way. I would have hoped that the controllers would accept fsnav flight plans and not ask pilots to change to their version of it. Surely in real life a controller wouldnt ask a pilot to change everything when there are no glaring errors in it.? all comments welcome as i now have to decide whether online flying is for me as i dont have the time to spend preparing useless flightplans with fsnav that are not acceptable. I did look up the controllers ATIS and got the active runway etc, so in my opinion my flight plan should have been acceptable...it certainly had a SID attachedJohn Calleja

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "short form", but say for example you are going from KSEA to KSFO and you plan on following the J5 jetway...there's no need for you to enter all the waypoints along that jetway, just enter the entry VOR and exit VOR of that jetway...much easier that way. Along the J5 jetway there's a dozen waypoints, but you would make it much easier for the controller to read your flightplan if you just enter J5 when you file the flightplan.This is how it would be entered into the PMDG FMC also, so I don't see the big deal. If it's entered this way into the PMDG FMC it will automatically fill in the waypoints lying in between those VOR's.

Hi MikkelThank you for your reply but unfortunately you seem to have missed the main point of my post. I bought fsnav because i thought it would produce first class flightplans that i could then use online with vatsim.I don't want to spend my time preparing my flight plan to be told that it needs major modifications before i can fly it. The flight plan came directly from fsnav with the sids and stars and i exported it to all the programs i was using which i believed to be the proper way to do a flightplan. If i cant submit a flightplan to vatsim this way then vatsim is not the online experience i want. From your example from KSEA to KFSO using fsnav and then exporting does not tell me j5, but just the waypoints, again my point is i bought fsnav to do the flightplan for me then all i need to do is export it, but you are confirming that this is not the way to do it, so either ive wasted my money with fsnav, or this method is acceptable by vatsim and the controllers need to to be advised to accept these types of flightplans or the online experience is no good to me. Look forward to a reply from a vatsim official. thanks in advanceJohn Calleja

Hi John,Please don't be discourage because of my reply, I may have misunderstood your question. I urge you to hang in there and wait for someone else to make a reply. I fly a lot online, and I think it's a great experience, a lot better than flying with the builtin fs9 ATC. I don't have english as my first language so I might not understand the subtleties of the language. What I can tell you is how I do my flightplanning and how I submit it to the controllers, if you like.

JohnVATSIM uses real-world procedures as much as possible, which generally means using a flight plan format of:SID WAYPOINT AIRWAY WAYPOINT AIRWAY WAYPOINT STARUnfortunately, FSNav does not produce particularly good flightplans. Firstly, although it displays airways on the map, it does not include them in the FP - all you get is a long list of waypoints. You can work out what the correct short FP should be by looking at the FSNav map and physically writing down the airways, but its a laborious process.Secondly, some airways are restricted, meaning that they are out of use at times, or only for certain flight levels, or only work in one direction, and FSNav takes no account of these.However, I would not say you have wasted your money. I have flown many hours online and I find FSNav essential for working out where I am sometimes, for seeing where other aircraft are, working out when I will be at a certain position etc. It also shows the various ATC boundaries precisely, which is useful for knowing when to contact ATC.For good flightplans, I would recommend a combination of the following website:http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/...and a program called FSBuild 2.1, which you can get from here:http://www.fsbuild.com/The website is free, and it gives you the option to re-route around restricted airways. Just plug in your departure and destination and it gives you the short-format plan. For example, for EGFF to EDDM, it gives:DCT TAMEL UY92 NOSDA UL9 KONAN UL607 AMASI UM149 BOMBI T104 WLDCopy and paste this into the flightplan box in FSBuild, hit the "Build" button, and it exports the correct FP with all the correct waypoints along each airway into FS, FSNav, Squawkbox, PMDG, PSS and a few others as well if you want.FSBuild is payware, but it is a truly superb flight planning tool. It can auto-generate FP's as well, and although it might not avoid restricted airways (don't worry, restrictions are not that common), it still gives the correct format and exports to all the other progs as mentioned above.Hope that helps.Bruce.PS. I think the controller was a little harsh insisting you re-file simply because of the format of your FP, considering you were new to online flying. Make sure you put "New Pilot" in your notes.

Thanks for the replies. Mikkel, I am quite happy now on what i should be doing, and Bruce has explained in good detail what I should be doing. It would seem that I need fsbuild as well as fsnav to get to grips with this, if this is what you guys use mainly for good flightplanning, so time to bite the bullit and get the plastic out again., and also Bruce thanks for agreeing regarding your ps. I thought so too but not sure what the norm was. So try again and see what happens when i get fsbuild. cheers allJohnC

I would recommend that you try the free version of FSBuild as that can produce just as good flightplans as the payware one...especially since you already have FSNav.

Don't worry FSNav was a good buy still. I have yet to see anything that does as good of a job as it does for flight following. As well once you SB running and you are connected to Vatsim, on the options menu connect to the mutli-player and you have a TCAS as well.