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Guest Bud

Help with Rotaries Revisited

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Guest Bud

As the first thread was getting a touch long, I thought I would continue this way. With my legendary sense of timing I gave up the search for knitter-switches some two days before a post appeared talking about a source in Hungary. Ah well, having decided to try the kdarling method as modified for the Hagstrom, I found some ordinary, cheap rotaries.As an experiment I installed one on an existing panel. The only difference I could see from what I've read is that the panel uses a Hagstrom USB decoder which has a graphic interface for allocation of keys. The installation went fine but when I tested the result in Notepad, the output was when turning both left and right - BbBbBbBbBb - not exactly what I wanted.Tried one or two different key allocations, checked the wiring, had a calming drink etc but continued to get alternate upper and lower case output.The questions are 1 - have I got the wrong rotaries; 2 - have I got the wrong Hagstrom; 3 - should I explore the attractions of, say, rugmaking as an alternative hobby. Help !!!As an aside, whilst I was grinding my teeth in front of the 'putes, I failed to maintain attention on the v. small person sitting on the floor next to me. He was chuckling and gurgling whilst happily pulling out all the wires from the back of the panel I was using for the experiment. Don't you just love babies.Bud

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Guest

Bud, Looks to me like you have assigned the keys wrong. I think you have assigned 'b' and 'B' to the two inputs, you have to assign 'b' to one input and 'SHIFT' to the other, that's the 'SHIFT' key alone.Peter

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Guest Stephan Haas

Bud,I recieved 1 Knitter switch yesterday and hooked it up to a Hagstrom. I used the conncetions I had previously working for a 2-way switch (left/right contact. The Knitter worked flawless! Each of the contacts however had a separate key coding, I'm not using the SHIFT / normal trick.Kind regards,Stephan Haashttp://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...or=SVA1&a=a.jpg

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Guest kdarling

What kind of rotary? Part number and manufacturer would let us look at the data sheets, possibly.Best,Kev

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Guest MikePowell

Bud,Most of us have to pay quite a lot to get technical help. To have one in your household who also has the added benefit of v. small hands to reach into those hard to reach, tight spaces is incredibly fortunate. Clearly your v. small helper had noticed your approach was not working and was taking steps to correct it. Mikewww.mikesflightdeck.com

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Guest Bud

Mike,You are absolutely right. To be perfectly honest, as this thread demonstrates quite clearly, in terms of electronics he probably has more idea than I have. Tomorrow we are going to sit down together and I am going to instruct him to put back all that he removed. I will watch and no doubt gain in knowledge.As to the note on the allocation of keys, I did exactly what is suggested, I allocated b to one and shift alone to t'other.As to the encoder itself, Manufacturer is Bourne, the product is blessed with the following - 3315C-1-016.Bud

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Guest Bud

Stephen,Could you say where you got one knitter from. All my previous enquiries led me to believe that only v. large orders were accepted.Bud

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Guest RichardL

Today, I sent emailes to two companies reguesting their help in sourcing the Knitter switches.First was Arrow.com. According to their web site, they have a division called Spoerle http://www.spoerle.com/ which does stock the MRP 1-20 rotary pulse switch. From the Spoerle, page do a search on the Knitter part number. Second email went to Newark http://www.newark.com/. From Newarks main page, I selected Services, then ProductFind. That brought me to a page with a EuroDirect Link at the bottom. When I clicked on EuroDirect, a pfd sheet displayed that showed Knitter Switch. So, where did that lead us. Probably no where, but the hunt was fun.I'll post here if I receive any answers. Richard

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Bud,I had a look at the data sheet for the Bourns encoder you have and it appears to be the same as the Panasonic that I used. So it should work.To go back to basics, you have connected the central pin on the encoder to a ground pin on the Hagstrom and each of the outer two pins on the encoder to an input pin on the Hagstrom.As a test, try assigning a different key to the two inputs you used, say, 'a' and 'b' and see what output you get then. It might give a clue to what is happening.Peter

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Guest Bud

Peter,Many thanks for taking the trouble to check the specs. I've more or less got my panel back together and now recognize I made an error which led to the upper/lower case fiasco of yesterday. To my shame, I omitted one important step in the programming of the Hagstrom USB. I've now done the job properly ie connection and programming. At the moment just using Shift alone on one pin and a letter on t'other with the middle to the common ground, the output now is just the lower case character when turning both right and left. The Hagstrom does not seem to recognize Shift. I did actually test using another character in place of Shift. The result was a rehash of yesterday - the alternate output of both - ie bmbmbmbmbm with an occasional burst of half a dozen or so of one character or the other turning both left and right. I even checked to see what would happen when only one character terminal was connected - a constant stream of the appropriate character resulted.The connections, wiring etc are all checked OK; if you feel that the rotary itself is OK, then that would seem to leave the Hagstrom. Was your test on the USB unit ?Bud

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Guest Stephan Haas

Bud,It's a long story but it boils down to the fact that I have found a small Dutch firm which was willing to send me one. Now that I have seen it work I have placed a follow up order.I have a registered firm, so they were willing to do bussiness with me. They won't do bussiness with people outside of the Netherlands, and at the moment I have no intentions of setting up a Knitter bussiness for flightsimmers (too much hassle with money).Kind regards,Stephan Haashttp://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...or=SVA1&a=a.jpg

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Guest Bud

RichardI knew about the Newark firm. Their UK partner is Farnell - they don't stock knitter switches but I actually got my cheap rotaries from them - v.v. cheap too.Not heard of the other one but good luck in your continuing search.Bud

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Guest Bud

Stephan,Money is not a hassle - it is a v. pleasant thing to have. Wish I had a little more of it. If you ever change you mind, let me know - I'll be your first customer!Bud

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Guest kdarling

Bud,Can you hook up some test lamps / LEDs / or ohmmeter and see what you get?I looked at the spec sheet too, and it seems okay, but some of these switches will leave one of the outputs connected even sitting in a detent. You need to check to make sure that it has no through connection while in a detent, and that you see the correct phase outputs as you slowly turn the switch (this requires 2 lamps to see).Kev

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Guest

No, Bud. I'm using the KE72 unit which plugs in between the keyboard and the PC. Might be worth emailing Hagstrom, explaining what you are doing and ask if there any differences that would let it work on one and not on the other. Their tech support has been very helpful to me in the past.Peter

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Guest Bud

Kev,Thanks for that - I don't really have any test equipment. Such a test is way beyond the limit of my feeble brain. At the mo' I still think the prob could be with the programming of the Hagstrom USB. I'll drop H. a note and ask their view.Bud

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Guest Bud

Peter, Thanks - yep I think I will email Hagstrom to get a view from them. There are considerable differences, for eg, in the way that the USB is programmed, compared to the units which plug in via a keyboard connection. This could be the source of the problemBud

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Guest Bud

OK, I've now had a reply from Hagstrom - those guys really are a good bunch. They say that it should be possible to use the USB in the same manner as the KE72. In order to get it to work, the assignment of the keystrokes to the USB unit is done in a slightly non-standard way. I'm still looking for clarification of one aspect of this but it's looking hopeful.Bud

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Guest Bud

Sorry that the end of this saga has been delayed. The v. small person appeared to believe that his needs took precedence over flight sims. Education re. life priorities begins next week.The rotaries now DO work with the Hagstrom USB following advice received. Have to say my sense of excitement when I saw the test work was totally out of proportion to the 'achievement'. For folks without a Hagstrom USB, the explanation will be meaningless. However, for this purpose, the Shift key is programmed by pressing the LShift key on the pop-up keyboard representation. The shift box on the main graphic display is not pressed at all. Actually if I had half the sense I was born with I should probably have worked this out for myself. Anyway that's it.I'm so grateful to everyone who provided advice, and in particular to Kevin and Peter - many thanks guys. Also I hope all who've read these threads have had some amusement from them!Guess my next project should be builing a throttle . . . . hey I bet you all can't wait for that Bud

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Guest RichardL

Hi Bud,Still waiting for a response from Newark and Arrow.I also have a Hagstrom USB keyboard encoder. Any idea if your system will work with Project Magenta Airbus FCU keyboard commands? In particular:F1/F4 Increase/Decrease AirspeedF5/F6 Increase/Decrease HeadingF7/F8 Increase/Decrease Verticle SpeedF9/F12 Increase/Decrease AltitudeCtrl Y Decrease AltimeterCtrl U Increase AltimiterRichard

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Guest Salbado

Hi Richard,I suspect you are using Peter Cos' Push Pull rotaries, I too am trying to do the same thing with the Project Magenta airbus commands for the FCU. Please let me know how you make out with the knitter stuff... Regards. Thanks.

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Guest RichardL

Hi Salbado,No, actually I developed a different setup for the rotaries. Used a few different ideas I saw and built a push-pull rotary sytem that works for me.I talked to Arrow today and was told Knitter could not be sourced. I then emailed Spoerle to see if they export to the US.Still waiting for Newark to work a quote. Initially, their answer was no, but I then tried a different route. We will see what they say.Richard

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Guest Bud

Hi Richard,Glad to see you're still trying for the knitter switches. I'd still be interested if you could get a source. It does seem really odd that they are unwilling to sell their product.As to your query re Project Magenta remember this is not my system - this is all thanks to Kevin and Peter. I suspect that the F combinations will not work - I seem to remember in some of the earlier posts in Kevin's original thread, this was raised.The Cntrl combinations as you set them out won't work either. What does work is the use of Cntrl in place of shift with another single character. Hope that makes sense.Bud

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Guest RichardL

Hey Bud,Thanks for the update. Now that I think about it, that other post you're referring to may have been mine. That post was about using a stripped down keyboard. I thought, since you were using a Hagstrom unit, the F and control commands might work.Will post here when I learn more on the Knitter switches.Richard

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Guest Bud

Hello Richard,Been thinking about your Magenta situation. I know absolutely nothing about the Magenta set up, but can you tell me, is it possible to increment and decrement the values you want by way of mouse clicks rather than the keyboard. If so, there is a fairly easy way to solve your problem and to utilise the Hagstrom. Bud

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