Hi all!Built the "Baby plasma" USB thingy by Leo. Its done and ready to use.... Except the programming

Hi Olle,>I wonder.... THe FSBUS uses ICSP to get the code into the PIC>on each board. The 16c745 uses ICSP too... Would it be>possible to use the FSBUS to program the PIC?It depends on the programming algorithm used... But I assume that Microchip uses a different protocol on those two kinds of PICs.Another problem could be the programming voltage. The 16F84 is a flash part and the C745 is a EPROM part. For flash, you often can be even slightly below 12V, but the EPROM parts need often 13. something Volts (I can't remember exactly.) Check the programming specs for the respective chips.> If not, i have to wait until monday and buy some Zener diodes>before i can build a "ElCeapo" programmer....That should work. The only critical thing might be the voltage.

Hmm, yeah, but the voltage cant be that much of an issue, you can program a 16F84 and a for example 16c676 in the same programmer...So if I connect a 28 pin DIL socket with wires to the 18 pin DIL socket on the FSBUS PCB, so that the ICSP pins are connected correspondly, shouldn't I be able shove the hex file into the 745 as i do with the F84?(between the lines: I dont want to make a new tool for the tool, used to make the tool I need)Cheers!/ Olle

I don't know anything about FSBus, but if the ICSP of FSBus is connected to the PC via the serial port and the IC-Prog programming utility detects it if you set it to "JDM" and PIC16C745, then it should work.WARNING! Do not set the CP (Code Protect) configuration bits on the UV PIC devices. You will render them useless! So you just can't program the PIC using any utility since you can't be sure the config bits will be set properly when it "shoves" the HEX file at a specific address location on the device. The address locations of the F84 will not be the same as the 745.-Leo

Olle,I'm pretty much in the same position as you. (Well, almost. I have the parts, but have yet to assemble them.) My PIC programming software does not list the 16C745. The PIC itself can be in circuit programmed. After a cursory (and I emphasize; cursory) look at the Microchip docs it appears that the programming voltage should not be an issue. I suspect the bigger issue is the programming software.The first problem is likely to be the PIC's memory size. The programming software checks and programs expecting a certain amount of program and EEPROM memory. If it's only expecting a 1K program memory area, it may not program an 8K PIC. There may be problems if any expected EEPROM memory is not there. The programming software may refuse to attempt to load what it has identified as a "defective" chip.Second possible problem is the algorithm timing. The programming lines must be held for some amount of time, which may or may not be different for the different technologies (UV EPROM vs Flash vs OTP). I don't know. Have to actually read the PIC docs rather than scan them, I suppose. I think this is a lesser problem as the programming software may use overly long intervals to compensate for running under Windows which isn't really a real-time system. I'm hoping this to be the case.I'm planning on doing something similar to what you suggest. I will add another socket to my home made programmer, conecting MCLRL, RB6, RB7, Vdd and Vss. I will tell the programming software I have a 16F876 (which the software does know about) because it has memory structure similar to the 16C745. Then I shall see what happens. (I'm using WinPicProg 1.91 from Nigel Goodwin's site, and programming hardware based on a circuit also found there.)Let us know how your approach works, please.Mikewww.mikesflightdeck.com

Hi,i bet, fsbus won't flash any other than 16F84. I have integrated the flash feature into COM board to avoid buying any expansive flash hardware.The algorithm and more important, the config words in the software is specific to 16F84. In future, it will change to 16F627. The 12V of a flash device like 16F84 doesn't draw significant current, which an EEPROM does. A commercial flasher for many PIC's is a complex piece of hardware.kind regards Dirk

Thats what I suspected. Thanks for your answer.But the JDM wired for ICSP with IC-Prog should do it?Hmm, one more thing: When I look at the pin layout of the 745, it looks loke the data and clock input isn't on RB6-7 but on RC6-7 (pin 17-18). Am I right?/ Olle

If you have any doubts about the JDM programmer...this might convince you otherwise!Components

Holy crap thats ugly! d;-DGetting the Zeners on mondayThanks!/ Olle

Hi Olle, Mike, Leo, DirkOlle:if your hardware can program another 16C part, then it should also work with the 16C745.You just need to find a programming software that supports both your hardware and the 16c745.Nearly every bomebuilt simple parallel port hardware should be able to do it if the programming voltage is ok (since you need an external power supply anyway for most parallel port programmer)I've never used a serial port type programmer. Often those do use the serial port for their "power supply".Leo:Yours is a serial port device, right?Is your programmer powered by the serial port?I don't see any external power connectors...What Dirk wrote:"The 12V of a flash device like 16F84 doesn't draw significant current, which an EEPROM does." is what I really meant (but failed to express properly) in my first post. I use this very simple parallel port programmer:http://www.finitesite.com/d3jsys/There are many very similar programmers.Here are some pics of mine:http://cockpit.varxec.de/electronics/thvp_galleryidx.htmlhttp://cockpit.varxec.de/electronics/picicsp_galleryidx.htmlAlthough this hardware is designed only for 16F627/8 and 16F87x,I use it (via ICSP) for different PICs as well. (Just did that with an 18F4320)Many programmer-software stuff out there support these simple parallel port devices. I've used 3 different programs, all worked well. Just need to configure it for my "parallel port pin "-to-PIC mapping.Mike:"I have a 16F876 (which the software does know about) because it has memory structure similar to the 16C745."I would guess that its not gonna work that way. First of all, every PIC model has a different deviceID, and secondly those two chips might use a different programming algorithm.These two points are also a reason why FSBUS won't do the 745. (Maybe with a change on the PC-side software, it might. But thats something that only Dirk can do)(Sorry, Forgot that point in my first post)Manuel

Hi Manuel,Yes, the serial port powers the programmer. There is a simpler version around as well. I built mine several years ago and the circuit has been simplified since.Mike wrote:"I have a 16F876 (which the software does know about) because it has memory structure similar to the 16C745."Manuel then said:"I would guess that its not gonna work that way. First of all, every PIC model has a different deviceID, and secondly those two chips might use a different programming algorithm."The Microchip ICSP is a standard for programming the PICs and is well documented by MC so the

Hi Leo,>The Microchip ICSP is a standard for programming the PICs and>is well documented by MC so the

>I am pretty sure that there are several programming algos for>PICs around. eg. some have some kind of "bulk">transfer/programming mode while older ones don't.Yup, you might be right, hence my self doubt above. There is the complete programming spec somewhere on MC's site that clearly explains the whole thing. I started reading it years ago back when I thought I had to develop my own programmer until I finally stumbled upon IC-Prog and JDM on the net. Luckily it supported the PIC I wanted and I've been using it since then.>yeah, the configs are whats at least different among different>PICs>oh, and I've read several times, that the 16F877 and the>16F877A use different programming algorithms. The only difference I

Leo,Aren't all Canadian solder joints cold? :-lolThanks for the heads up about the config bits. I checked the device specs and the config register in the 16F876 is at the same location as in the 16C745 (2007h). I should be able to program the 745 safely using the 876 device type in the programming S/W (WinPicProg 1.91) since the config bits will have been set by your assembler (compiler?) already.Mikewww.mikesflightdeck.com

Hi AllI have built the JDM programmer, downloaded the IC-Prog and now wants to use this to program the 16C745 for the Plasma MiniMe by Leo.I also have the schematic for In Circuit Serial Programming. Now, this is where my problem starts.In my simple mind, from the ICSP connector on the JDM:MCLR to Pin1 on 16C745Vdd to Pin20 on 16C745Vss to Pin19 on 16C745RB6 to Pin27 on 16C745RB7 to Pin28 on 16C745What is the need for the 10K resistors and to what do they connect?PIC chips are very expensive in South Africa and I do not want to ruin the chips by stupidity.Any help would be appreciated.RegardsJohan