Updates to the Cessna GA Sim

[tigert 0]

So we were working on the sim the whole day today at the club, and got the radios mostly working. Yay!http://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuff/mik_mittarit.jpghttp://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuff/mik_visuaali.jpghttp://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuff/mik_simu.jpgFor those who are not familiar with the project:* Instruments from simkits* Radios and many switches via FSBUS* Visual system is a collimated mirror element.The mirror thing was received as donation from a retired full-motion sim.The whole thing is being built into a C150 fuselage section.Tuomas

[Guest Dodiano]

VERY NICE WORK!! It looks good, flight model is based on what plane??Take care.Roberto

[Guest MikePowell]

Very Impressive, Tuomas.A few questions about the collimated display:What is the mirror made of?What is the radius of curvature of the mirror?What are the dimensions of the mirror?Are you using the monitor designed for the system?If so, what is the curvature of the monitor faceplate?If not, what are you using and how curved is its faceplate? Do you notice any geometric distortion when viewed from the pilot's normal position?ThanksMikewww.mikesflightdeck.com

[tigert 0]

It's RealAir C172, which is pretty good./t

[Avcomware 1]

HI.That looks very good.I see that in the advertising they, simpit, claim PCATD / FTD status. A couple of things come to mind:1-What software / sim are they using? 2-How smooth / jumpy are the instrument updates, and how accurate are they?Thanks. TV

[tigert 0]

>HI.>That looks very good.>I see that in the advertising they, simpit, claim PCATD / FTD>status. A couple of things come to mind:>1-What software / sim are they using? The software they have works with FS2002/FS2004.>2-How smooth / jumpy are the instrument updates, and how>accurate are they?They are pretty smooth. Definitely more smooth than the Flight Sim bitmap gauges, where especially the artificial horizon is very jumpy. The simkits artificial horizon is more smooth, pretty fine for practicing approaches IMHO. Some stuff we have jumps slightly, but I think a bit of vaseline in the gears and bushings could help that as well, we are going to do that at some point, it is not that bad though that it would require immediate attention, and most of the flying on that thing is to be on VFR anyway.Tuomas

[tigert 0]

Mike, you sure know how to ask the tough questions ;) I'll try my best in answering..>What is the mirror made of?It is glass, but we did not do the display thing ourself, it was donated by Finnair from their retired DC-10 simulator that they sold - the folks buying it went for a projector display I think, so they did not need the mirror elements. So this is one of 6 total "slices" that create the view to the world in a real sim.>What is the radius of curvature of the mirror?Um. I'd need to measure it, and it is slightly tough since I cannot disassemble it. But I might take some measurements from the side, those wouldnt be too accurate though.>What are the dimensions of the mirror?The thing is designed so that it fits the 27 inch old Intergraph CAD monitor pretty much perfectly, though the original installation used 25" tubes, but of course the bigger image there is, the larger it is. There is an interesting effect though - you cannot see it completely "through the window", but if you peek in and lean forward towards the panel and up, you can look more under the "nose of the plane" - same with a bit sideways. There are no side views though as this would multiply the budget and space requirements and we dont want to go there, at least not now.>Are you using the monitor designed for the system?No, it's an old CAD workstation screen, but it fits pretty well to the use. A big TV would also work if (when) this one doesnt want to live anymore eventually.>If so, what is the curvature of the monitor faceplate?The monitor has some "bubble" look since it is not quite the latest model :) The original ones are also pretty bubbly.>If not, what are you using and how curved is its faceplate?> Do you notice any geometric distortion when viewed> from the pilot's normal position?We havent really tweaked the panel.cfg and stuff yet to get an optimum vision, but it seems to look pretty nice. Gives a very very nice 3d feeling of "instruments under your nose, scenery far out there" like on the real level-D sims, of course it is just a narrow slice of the world. A problem exists with the collimated thing thouhg that it only works really well for one person only. The sim is two seater, although just one yoke, but the visual thing is centered to the sim fuselage, so it is kind of "to the right" from the pilot and "to the left" from the copilot. It is not that critical thouhg, and I guess one cannot avoid that, unless the mirror thing was placed just directly in front of the main pilot flying, but that would make it look bad for the possible passenger/instructor.The view is nice though, photos dont do much justice, but here's a pic that is trying hard:http://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/albums/more_...t/aab.sized.jpgThe photo was taken from the "viewing hole" on the back of the sim, so it is centered. But it does look pretty OK, we just need to fine tune the view a bit.Tuomas

[Guest MattOlieman]

Let me tell you Tuomas, It looks absolutely fabulous. You guys have done a fantastic job, I'm impressed with the perfection you have displayed in building your project. And, you've done it in such a short time. Thanks for sharing your project with all of us.

[tigert 0]

>Let me tell you Tuomas, It looks absolutely fabulous. You>guys have done a fantastic job, I'm impressed with the>perfection you have displayed in building your project. And,>you've done it in such a short time. Thanks for sharing your>project with all of us.Thanks!We are very pleased with how well it turned out. There's still a lot to do, like the sound comes from a pair of matchbox speakers, the interior needs some fixing like a carpet and some wall panels, something that represents "doors" - we are planning to use black fabric which has a white "window" made from white fabric that lets some light inside but doesnt let you see outside. Gives you a feeling of a larger space, but separates you from the room the sim sits in.So there's lots to do, but this really shows that FS2004 can do lots when hooked into a simulator. The software itself is just a aviation game - the controls and instruments make it a simulator. It's magic to tune the nav radio to a VOR nearby and see the VOR needle jump around and a moment later the DME wakes up too, and shows the distance and groundspeed. Then you toggle the NAV1 switch from the audio panel to listen to the VOR ident morse code.. twist the vor course knob and start tracking a radial..The best part is that many people at the aviation club have been very interested and impressed - mind you this is not just a fun project but intended as a serious personal trainer for navigation and radio phraseology.Got to do some video footage from this once we get the full radio panel done, ADF is still missing and the transponder is not configured yet.Tuomas

[Guest MikePowell]

Thanks, Tuomas.What little information that is available about mirror collimated displays indicates that the surface of the monitor should be spherically curved for minimal geometric aberration when a spherical section mirror is used. Unfortunately, there is no mention of what happens if the monitor does not have this optimal shape. From your description it sounds that the system works quite well.Once again, you and your team have pushed the bar up a few more notches.Mikewww.mikesflightdeck.com

[tigert 0]

>Thanks, Tuomas.>>What little information that is available about mirror>collimated displays indicates that the surface of the monitor>should be spherically curved for minimal geometric aberration>when a spherical section mirror is used. Unfortunately, there>is no mention of what happens if the monitor does not have>this optimal shape. From your description it sounds that the>system works quite well.Yea. I dont know either how it is, but it does make sense when you think about it.>Once again, you and your team have pushed the bar up a few>more notches.Thanks :) It feels incredible now that we can tune the radios with the knobs, I have had that at home already, but the setup brings many things together for the first time: good visual system, enclosed cockpit and avionics + instruments.Tuomas

[Guest the_knack]

Tuomas,Great job with the sim. Everything looks fantastic. I'm especially impressed with the radio equipment. Do you have any design information that you would share? Maybe the way you designed the graphics around the displays and knobs? Keep up the good work my friend and keep us posted.Danny Mullins

[Guest Glenn Weston]

Tuomas, Congratulations on an excellent job, I can see many hours of work has gone into that project & you & the team are to be commended.I have a quick question for you, I notice you have a Garmin GPS running in the sim there, I also have a Garmin GPSIII & have often wondered about hooking it up to FS, It is not an Pilot type GPS i.e. GPSIII PILOT.......Do you know if it can be done with this model, it looks very similar to yours but slightly smaller.What first stikes me is you would usually pull postion data from a GPS not feed position data into it, as we would want to in a Flight Simulator.Cheers Glenn.

[tigert 0]

>What first stikes me is you would usually pull postion data>from a GPS not feed position data into it, as we would want to>in a Flight Simulator.Exactly. It is not running wiht NMEA output like you would do wiht a moving map. Pete Dowson implemented the "AV400" protocol that is used between the Garmin Aviation gps units in cases like when you have a panel mounted GPS that has a good antenna but might be a very basic unit, and your nice handheld doesnt get the GPS fix inside the plane. So you can hook those together and set the handheld to "Aviation IN" -mode so it gets the position data from the other GPS.So we fool the Garmin to think the PC's serial port is actually a panel mounted Garmin unit, and it works. Latest gpsout.dll contains support for this protocol.See here for more info: http://forums.simflight.com/viewtopic.php?t=16610Unfortunately I am afraid the "non-aviation" units do not have support for this protocol, so you might be out of luck here :/ Of course it doesnt hurt to try.Tuomas