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Guest Ramsberg

Nice possibilities with IOCARD, any experiences?

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Hi all!I have read what i can about the IOCARD projct over at opencockpits.com. If they get where they aim with the software emulation of the 737 systems integrated to FSUIPC its a very interesting thing.My reasearch adds up to:+ Very modular hardware platform.+ USB+ Most logic is software based = no pic programming problems+ Airplane systems (electric, fuel, hydraulics etc) managed by SW logic and integrated to the FS via FSUIPC. Nice for building a functioning overhead panel :-)))- PCBs are not common-man-DIY. Double sided pcbs probably means professional manufacturing. I've sent the gerber files for the PCBs to a manufacturer (olimex.com), but they couldn't do them because of too small drill holes (0.4mm in gerberg project, they can't do smaller than 0.6mm) I've sent mails to the forums and to the creator of the gerber layouts, but so far no answer.- Spanish... Webpage in spanish, application in spanish, documents in spanish, forum in spanish. Sure, there are english translations. But you will in a case like this always be a few weeks behind on the news... thank god for babelfish.altavista.com :-)Any live IOCards out there? Whats your thoughts.I believe that if this ON737 projects works out well, I will migratre from FSBUS over to IOCard. Good idea?/ Olle R

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Hi:I am user of the iocards since almost one year. Every thing as I can tell you is that I got with the system a lot of fun, and completly trouble free, and with a very hight support level (very much better than other commercial bits)A constant innovation based on a hight degree of flexibility is also another key for the success of the system.Spanish language? Not a problem at all: I suggest you to put as test a question, in english, in the spanish forum and you will see how many answers you will receive from those extraordinary people.If you want to see some results of my experiences, visit my page at:http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/fagase/cabina/CheersFrancisco

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Why migrate from FSBUS to IOCARD ?IOCARD is good but FSBUS too, they're quite similar except some architecture details (PIC vs Soft) but at the final they have about the same possibilitiesyou can buy FSBUS empty PCB's that's cheaper than to make them print by store. The FSBUS software is really powerful in association with your own FSUIPC's variable you can add and access thousand of parameter.Last week in an dutch sim-expo the stepper-motor controller was presented and would be release on the website very soon.Same with the new CCC Cockpit-Construction-Center a new functionality of FSBUS who make possible logical (but easy) programmation between variables, combinations, etc ...Summary, both systems seem to be attractive. I don't see the reason to switch from one to another, a loose of time and money.RegardsBOB

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>Why migrate from FSBUS to IOCARD ?Well, it doesnt have to be a "competitive" situation at all. Nothing is perfect, so having several choices and solutions is good - also for the hardware guys to learn from each other. And the actual cockpit is always a mix of quite a bit of things - we have SimKits gauges, FSBUS for switches and radios, and Leo's MiniME USB board for the yoke. Sure, there is the FSBUS AD-card, we use it for throttle and mixture, but MiniME really rocks for the yoke. It is cheap, fast and works really well. Gameport was never never never this trouble free and smooth.Sure, the TRC control unit from simkits does have switches and could drive everything as well, but we started with FSBUS and it works, so why tear down a working part of the sim? They work well toghether as well.As a completely unrelated thing, this is a bit-less-glorious look on how the "backstage" of our project looks like :) Those candy boxes are good for keeping the worst dust out by the way - put the lid on while not doing mainteinance..http://tigert.gimp.org/tigert-albums/yoke/abb.sized.jpgThose potentiometers are for the throttle, toe brakes, yoke and pedals and carb heat etc.. The idea was to keep most of the potentiometers out of the dusty inside of the simulator and just pull bicycle handbrake cables and mount them outside the cockpit, on the firewall in the front and put potentiometers there, and just fix the other end of the cables to the moving controls in the cockpit. much easier to replace a broken pot as well.. The springs are used to "pull" the wire tight since it is quite flexible and would just form a loop otherwise when the control is pushed.//Tuomas

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Nice pic.Question: where did you find those springs ?I used to do something similar as this with my elevator control but removed it cuz it was not working 100%

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HiI too came across IOCARDS in my research. In the final analsis, what set IOCARDS apart from FSBUS is the project's incredible documentation (par or even better than competing commercial products).When i read those beefy pdf files this morning, it was clear that the system designer wrote them keeping the novice end user in mind. My hats-off to the level of details he provided in those documents. Since i too cannot understand spanish, i have the same concerns as you do. However, here is what i found:1) The website is available in engilsh. Look for languages section on the right nav bar or here it is:(http://www.opencockpits.com/index.php?newlang=english).1) All the documents are translated and available in english. Here is the link: http://www.opencockpits.com/modules.php?na...=titleA&show=102) Even with FSBUS, i have the issue of finding good quality PCB manufacturer at a reasonable price. IOCARDS solved this problem. On the project website they are offering the cards at incredibly reasonable price. They also have completely built cards. Here is the link: (http://www.opencockpits.com/modules.php?name=get_iocardsi)Their software also seems well integrated with FS and PM. And though it is in spanish, every screen, button, message is translated and explained in the documentation. since i don't have to switch from one to another and while agreeing with the others that both are very good projects, IOCARDS seem to get my vote. My only concern this point is - there seem to be more user base and thus better community support for FSBUS and less so for IOCARDS, and your comment about no response from the creator or forum also concerns me. -sri

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>Nice pic.>>Question: where did you find those springs ?>>I used to do something similar as this with my elevator>control but removed it cuz it was not working 100%By the way, I can *heartly* recommend the MiniME USB "joystick" by Leo, it is *awesome*. Forget gameport. Just forget it. We have awesome accuracy in our sim now, no spikes, just beautiful, linear and smooth aileron movement, 180 degrees of yoke rotation. Turning just a few millimeters left or right sets the plane to a very slight smooth turn. This is how it is meant to be. Wow. Same for elevator. Now we just need to build the elevator return springs and trim system. Anyone got ideas for that?Oh, right. What I was about to reply actually! D'oh! The springs! Those are from a car parts shop called "Motonet" here. Basically the "all round junk and tools and such stuff" -warehouse. It was in a set of 200 small springs of various kinds, pretty cheap too. Very very useful :-)/Tuomas

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Yes, I agree that the function of the FSBUS-system is similar to IOCARD... There is one big benefit with IOCARD that I've been searching for and answer on.... Here it goes:Since the "advanced planes" as PDMG737 etc isnt "system compatible" with fsuipc, i mean the access to for example fuels system and hydraulics in the aircraft is not accessible... Secrets of PMDG so to speak... How do other builders integrate their overhead panels? Are the engines startable without external power or the APU conected to the bus? Does the engines stop if left fuel tank is empty and the crossfeed is closed?As I understand is, IOCARD toghether with the emerging ON737 will accomplish just that.Thats why i look into IOCARD.PSHow do you guys, with an overhead panel with all the buttons and stuff, simulate it?/ Olle

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FSBUS will do that too shortly with the new CCC system that Dirk's working on. In my opinion, FSBUS is more advanced than IOCARDS in terms of cost. IOCARD need one IC for every 7 segment digit, so a radio with 5 digits would need 5 IC, where FSBUS uses just 1. Now they've made a new system similar to FSBUS using microcontrollers (multiplexed), but with different layout. Wiring is more complicated in IOCARDS.I think both systems would be good complements of each other, using FSBUS for some things and IOCARDS for other.

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> In my opinion, FSBUS is more advanced than IOCARDS in terms>of cost. IOCARD need one IC for every 7 segment digit, so a>radio with 5 digits would need 5 IC, where FSBUS uses just 1.If I'm not mistaken, FSBUS uses the MAX decoder chip which very costly whereas IOC likely uses standard BCD decoder chips which are very cheap. Bottom line cost is about the same when you add things up.-Leo

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That is not correct !IOCards have two Display cards. One display card with discrete electronic and another multiplexed display card.This multiplexed display card have only a microcontroller for 16 7-segments displays.You can download schema and gerber files in www.opencockpits.com -> download section

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>As I understand is, IOCARD toghether with the emerging ON737>will accomplish just that.What is happening with ON737 and IOCARDS? Can you pl. provide the link?thxsri

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>>As I understand is, IOCARD toghether with the emerging>ON737>>will accomplish just that.>>What is happening with ON737 and IOCARDS? Can you pl. provide>the link?>>thx>sriNew preview of ON-737 in some weeks.- Fire system complete.- Overhead graphic panel. - Master caution, Fire warning panel complete.- Auto-TH system for IOCards.- Flaps indicator system for IOCards.- Command Center instructor.- MCP.- FMC.- PFD.- ND.- X-Plane / FSimulator module link.All modules connected through IOCP protocol (You can connect modules via internet).This is only a demo-preview... This freeware aplication is a work of a group :- Jos

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Awesome!Will be a big enjoyment to check it out when its available!When you say "Overhead graphic panel." do you mean a windowed panel with movable buttons? Is the system logic done/started? I mean, APU only starts if battery- or external power and fuel is available, and so on?This will be such a breakthrough if you pull this off!!! All my appreciation goes to all of you, Jos

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>When you say "Overhead graphic panel." do you mean a windowed>panel with movable buttons?Yes... For test all systems you have graphic panels.If you have real hardware panel you can use ON-737 with IOCards and you can use graphic panels for remote instructor control. Is the system logic done/started?>I mean, APU only starts if battery- or external power and fuel>is available, and so on?Yes !, ON-737 is a full system simulator. Only not have graphic scenary simulation.>Any news on the updated gerberfiles? (bigger drillholes)I wait to receive and test PCB prototypes to avoid failures.

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>Since the "advanced planes" as PDMG737 etc isnt "system>compatible" with fsuipc, i mean the access to for example>fuels system and hydraulics in the aircraft is not>accessible... Is this the case for 777 also? thanks.

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No experiense myself but i would think so. THe policy they have is to protect their invention, which is the systems simulations in their product... I thing their a/c systems are inaccessible from external applications...I hope someone proves me wrong./ Olle

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