Business between cockpit builder

[Guest Dodiano]

VERY WELL SAID ROBERT!! You want cheap parts get them yourself, you

[Guest LGA]

Well, as for myself real parts are out of the question, even commercial plastic stuff I'll have to pass on. A year from now when my project has more or less progressed, it might win the "Least amount of cash invested" award....lol While demand may bring up prices on real parts, there is also the potential for price decreases in commercial plastic, FDS, etc if volume sales are high.

[Guest SHORT360]

Great reaction, guys!!You just showed up your real face.The community will appreciate.Thanks

[Guest SHORT360]

Hola Ricardo,You are right. Should be so. Nevertheless I am not sure it will be so.Cheers,Roger

[Guest skywarrior]

I don't usually respond in this forum, but I feel like I must add my 2 cents.While there may be some sharks amoug us, there is also a tremendous family here. I can't begin to tell how much I've learned from questions asked & answered here. I know that some of the guys that sell stuff commercially have volunteered answers. Three years ago, all I knew how to do was fly an airplane. Now I have a complete 172R flight simulator that we are in the process of enclosing. It uses real airplane controls & switches. The only equipment that isn't real is the radio stack & we are in the process of building a GNS 530 using a 5" TFT LCD complete with push buttons & encoders.My point is that without this forum or the wideview forum, I would not have my simulator.I respect everybodies opinion, but not everybody is a shark. Look at the advise that Mike Powell gives. I also happen to know a well known company that charges $4.50 for an encoder that can be ordered in the US for $1.47. But not everybody is like that. I mean look at how many times guy have offered to write code or offered their code for free.Sure, things get more expensive. Hell, I use to be able to rent a 182 for $50/hour. But now it is $125/hour. I also remember when I could buy gas for $.25/gallon. No, you figure out when that was. Yeah, I'm over 55.Seriously though, please remember that there is & always will be a bunch of simheads who are always willing to help you.Regards,Jim Brown

[Guest rprather]

>> "You just showed up your real face."WOW!! Let's not burn bridges my friend .I add an average of $100 worth of extra parts to every shipment. Roberto just sold a guy some $400 switches for $25. I just gave a guy an expensive MCP FREE, because his infant daughter accidentally stepped on his other one. Companies like Go Flight, AGT, FDS, etc have sent me countless free prototypes. WE ARE NOT HUSTLERS!!! If you choose to spend your life savings on parts then give them away, feel free to put me out of business and I will bow to your reign.Why not start your own database, make your own storefront, sign up for a locator service ($500/month) and charge simmers next to nothing for your parts. When each day you're spending, 4 hours responding to e-mails/ICQ messages, an hour at the shipper, an hour arranging inventory and an hour updating your web site, I will solute your success.>> The community will appreciate.The eldest members of this community are great friends of mine (most are on speed dial ). Ask James Price what he thinks of my efforts, or ask Matt Ford, Randy Eskow, Dave Allen, Roberto, Peter, Enrico, etc etc. Join Matt and I for sushi next week and we can chat more (I will pay).Who is this "community" YOU speak of.. ROFLOL!This conversation pops up every few years, I guess this is your first time participating. When I was a neosimmer, I said the same thing about Enrico's software. Needless to say I apologized soon after and purchased a full copy. IF you are still building in 3 years, we shall see how you react.In the meantime, I wish you the best of luck with your project.Robert

[Guest SHORT360]

>>>This conversation pops up every few years, I guess this is your first time participating. When I was a neosimmer, I said the same thing about Enrico's software. Needless to say I apologized soon after and purchased a full copy. IF you are still building in 3 years, we shall see how you react>>>>>>>>Now please stay a bit humble. When I flew my first plane you were not born and when I started with the flight simulation you were undoubtely still in the pampers. Relatively after that I started to build my first item which could be called a cockpit part and you may at that time probably just be able to manage your natural needs by yourself.What's up in that damned world were college boys are saying to experienced people how the world goes???If a did not be an earlier member of any cockpit forum, that's simply because it was not at that time easy to get Internet in France. Nevertheless there were already some cockpit builder in Europe. I remember two young frenchies in the mid 80th having build their first simulator based on a german programm called Airbus A 320.So please come down from your syntetic world to the real one.Roger

[Guest SHORT360]

Hi Jim,There was never in my intention to say that the majority of the member of that forum are sharks or hustlers. I think that the majority are just ready to help as much as possible any newcomer. I am talking about a small minority.I did never say enough how much Mike Powell is helping here, any many others.I remember also the time were I made my IR rating in the States and flew a 172 RG Cutlass for 35 $ + 10 for the instructor, and could rent a twin beech or piper for less that 100$. But it was a long time ago and those prices raised from 1 to 3 in twenty years. Here I am talking about items going from 1 to 10 in 6 months. But as you may read here there are some smart young college boys explaining us oldies where it goes long now and why we have to accept to paid that much? I am 53 in some days.Best Roger

[Guest rprather]

> Nevertheless there were already some cockpit builder in Europe. > I remember two young frenchies in the mid 80th having build their > first simulator based on a german programm called Airbus A 320.80's... That makes them late. Randy Eskow built a recognized simulator, at home, in 1965... A Boeing 707 simulator which was recognized by American Airlines. He just retired his Jetstar to start on his 6th simulator, a Jet Commander. Great guy... ALWAYS making tough upgrades though .>But as you may read here there are some smart young college>boys explaining us oldies where it goes long now and why we>have to accept to paid that much? LMAO!!! Randy calls me "youngen" to keep me in my place and remind me that he was building sims decades before my existence.. LOL! I bestow it unto you to call me as you see fit.. ROFLMAO!!!Take care,Robert

[Guest kdfossum]

I totally agree.What was ones regarded as scrap now has value again, and there is a demand for it. People are aware of that, and the prices will show it.Those are not people of the community though, those are people wanting to make profit of the community.I think, we as a community should trade between ourselves in a reasonably way, and if enough people do that, the others will be way over priced and might have to come down on their prices.There will never be a shortage of cockpit parts, that's for sure.Btw, this is not a very big community, and words are sure to spread quick I would think.I am very surpriced how much some of these used scrapped items go for these days though. Who would have thoughtBest regards,Kevin

[Guest MattOlieman]

I can't believe this thread is still alive:) Actually I think we should keep it going, as a reminder of how most of us (in this community) help each other. I (one of the old farts) too have helped many, given out parts free; of items I've either made or paid for. As far as buying parts for your sim and how much you should pay for an item.... it's not the value of the item, but how much it's worth to you, how much you are willing to pay. I know I've bought items that are way beyond the actual value, and in time I could have bought it for less. But I'm pleased with what I got and do not regret my decisions.Our hobby is about the deep drive and desire to build our sim. To do what ever it takes to build our dreams, while maintaining our friendship, camaraderie with our fellow hobbyist. We are a "Unique" group of people "On This World" without political boundaries, united together in a single quest to do what we love the most, and to do it "together" as a society of flight-sim builders.

[Guest rprather]

>I can't believe this thread is still alive:)>Wow Matt... you took the words right outta my mouth ! I am going to go out on a REAL limb here and give everybody one of my major resources... There is a web site called Parts Logistics (http://www.partslogistics.com), where you can find most any aircraft part for any aircraft (including 777, 747-400, A320, etc). Feel free to sign up for the free trial, call around for some RFQs, THEN come back and discuss . Not to be arrogant, but all the "non-believers" out there need a harsh, frustrating lesson in how expensive this stuff really is (Not talking about you Matt!). When you have to front $5,000 to get a price break, we'll see how "generous" you get . There is apparently some belief out there that companies just GIVE us this stuff because they like us :-) I give a lot of parts away, I provide free software, and have made all my reports and web services completely free, but that DOES NOT change the fact that next gen aircraft parts are difficult to get and are not cheap! PLEASE spend some time at PartsLogistics BEFORE continuing this conversation.Good luck :-)Robert

[Guest DarrenBe]

I think the moral of the thread is "buyer beware", you MAY be able to get a better deal elsewhere. If you don't like the price, then don't purchase it.I do not think it is worthwhile, comparing the price of a 'scrapped' part and the list price from the manufacturer. Its like comparing apples and oranges. The only time a comparison is worthwhile, is if the part has a serviceable label, complete with traceable paperwork. An aircraft part WITHOUT traceable paperwork is nothing more than an expensive paperweight. To the aviation industry it is worthless, apart from its scrap value, as it can never be used, again, in a commercial aircraft - of course that is not the case with us, as we are able to utilise these parts, in our hobby. But the buyer must ask him/herself whether or not the part is worth the asking price.There are some serious bargins to be had, if you do a little bit of searching. So far I've only spent

[Guest rprather]

Good day,>I do not think it is worthwhile, comparing the price of a>'scrapped' part and the list price from the manufacturer. Its>like comparing apples and oranges. The only time a comparison>is worthwhile, is if the part has a serviceable label,>complete with traceable paperwork. >I respect your opinion, but apparently you did not take the time to try PartsLogistics as noted. The parts there are not new by far. I am referring to "as removed" parts. Not even servicable, overhauled, or even repairable. Simply as removed. A 777 CDU with no paperwork is still $8,000. That's a bargain considering it has a list price of roughly $187,000. A 757 fire control panel in "as removed" condition is typically +$1,500. A CCD is like $3,000 per side. These ARE NOT NEW prices. The EVAC panels that I found for $500 (in virtually brand new condition) cost around $3,000 from Gables. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT??!??!?I can find you old stuff all day long for little of nothing. 727, L1011, and 737 parts are a dime a dozen (litterally ). But try getting what is known as "hard to find stuff". I don't mean landing light switches from a 737, I mean try finding a populated landing gear panel from an A320, or a 777 yoke. Heck, try finding some 777 MCP switches.>There are some serious bargins to be had, if you do a little>bit of searching. So far I've only spent

[Guest DarrenBe]

Robert,With all due respect, I have an account on Partslogistics - which I use extensively for my day job, along with other part locating services, so please do not try and make assumptions about what I may or may not have done. I'm more than aware of the cost of aircraft parts.The initial poster on the thread made the comment that a part they bought for $15, are now selling at $60 each. No mention of aircraft type etc, just the comment about the increase in the price. So I don't understand where your comments about NG aircraft come from?!?!?I just made the comment, that hobbyists are not forced to buy a part if they do not like the price. It MAY be possible to find the part cheaper elsewhere it MAY NOT. I cannot see how you can see that as a criticism of the sellers. As with any purchase in life, Car, computer, tv, furniture, etc the buyer should always check as best they can, that the deal they are getting is as good as it appears.I just cannot understand why you feel the need to tone your reply the way you did. You obviously know nothing about me, nor what I do for a living. DarrenPS My flightdeck may not be a NG aircraft, but parts in it are still used today on regional jets, from the power levers down to the pitch trim switch on the control columns. It is also younger than some 757/767s out there.