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Guest SHORT360

Business between cockpit builder

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Hi,I always thought, and I am probably na

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Roger, I AGREE!I do feel exact same way as you feel. I am with you.

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It can be possible. It just requires a bit of emotional intelligence and not the rational intelligence of all sharks and predators ruling the world and driving it into a big wall.The bad news is that there are already some sharks swimming in our field of interest. Take care.Best to allRoger

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mm..............if you have a plam to make it feasible. I think many simmer want to hear.Good day Falcon captain!Alkit

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Alkit,>if you have a plam to make it feasible. I think many simmer>want to hear.That's simple. I would say to certain, just stop making bad business and start making fair business. I am not against the exchange of goods. But do it fairly.BestRoger

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helloi agree fully with you!but thats also what we call "free market".if there are lot of request after a few very rare parts, the price is going up. unfortunately the parts we all are looking for are very rare.years ago i bought some parts of a 727 for some bucks. nowadays i would have to pay twice the amount for minimum...only thing we can do is, to help each other with tips and information where we can get good and price-worthy parts and material for building up our sims. and we can decide where we buy our parts or not.well, thats my opinion and my 2 cent words...best from viennahans g.

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Roger, Is this called BARTER? I seems learn it many years ago in econonic lesson. No "money" involve.Let's get back to the past.Alkit

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>only thing we can do is, to help each other with tips and>information where we can get good and price-worthy parts and>material for building up our sims. and we can decide where we>buy our parts or not.Hans,You absolutely right. I would just add that anybody may also help each other in revealing to the community when he is witness of an unfair business proposals or some back sheeps trying to make money on our account.Free market?? I have not problem with it, but there must be as strong counter-power possible when the consumers are aiming together.BestRoger

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Alkit,Barter is a good definition but I know that it is not always possible. Money can of course be involved, but we should avoid trying to make profits from each other. bestRoger

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AlkitThen please do it. As a first step I would like you to send me a mail because I would not start here a second controversy.BestRoger

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Let me just say one more thing here, I have been selling parts

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I just sent you an email via the system!Alkit

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Exactly.It is indeed obvious that prices rise a bit but at the rate this is going, soon a nice cockpit will be reserved for the rich.I tried to do with as little money as possible but hey look at me.One day I buy a 16.55 euro worth of gear lever tip (which when I get it does not at all looks like what I expected it to be)The next day I get one made by a very friendly french guy totally for free. I am very happy about that one and next week I hope to show you all pictures from what I got right now compared to the real thing .. you'll all be amazed just as I am.Then one other day I think I can get the FSbus prints and components for a good price only to find myself 6 months later with nothing but 180 euro spent and nothing in return.I've seen stuff on the net (though most is for airbus and boeing) which I could posibly use in my Fokker50 though I have not often been tempted to pay that kind of money. So I end up making most things myself or finding alternatives that are afordable but are less exact copy of the real deal.One thing I know for sure. My un-used gear lever knob is for sale to any person living in BE, FR, NL or DE for only 10 euro, no shipment charges. Sending it back to someone from US would be rediculous cuz they can get a similar prise from the dealer themselves. Shipment overseas is quite much. Then IF one day I do get my FSbus components, by then I will be using Photon for some time (just ordered parts today). I will then sell these parts to anyone for exactly the same price as I payed for it. And trust me that is a very good deal (though quite a loss if I never see them ore my money back ever again).It's a crazy comunity indeed. Some are kind, some seem kind but really are not, some are greedy for money, others share whatever they can ..Tnk God that there are still people like Claude Kieffer and Roberto Soriano (whom sent me a real F50 EFIS panel which he found in a lot of 777 panels he is using, NO CHARGES, everything free as a gift to my project!) But it's quite obvious that we can't expect everyone to be like that, right ...

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Roberto,I am not insulting anybody. I just give an opinion and I stay on it.My son is deeply involved with airplane maintenance companies and I know about what I am talking.As you said, it is a free market and if there are some people willing to pay whatever it costs, it is their decisions.I stay on mine and encourage fellows cockpit builders to be carefull with people willing to make profit on their account.That's it.Cheers,Roger

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Well if that is your opinion I can live with it just remember we make profit not to Rip Off anyone just plane bussiness and help a couple of guys...Regards,Roberto Soriano

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Roberto,It's fine. Dont take it personnally.CheersRoger

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Nope no problem here man :-beerchug Take care.Roberto

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Some good points have been made on this thread. I just look at it this way, I think of our community as the people that are building their flightdeck or have a legit business that helps us build our cockpits, flightdeck solutions/PM etc. In my opinion, those who abuse others with exaggerated prices are not part of our community, just a bunch of hustlers on the sideline.

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You bring up a respectable point, and it's one I deal with every day. Real aircraft parts are EXPENSIVE, and unfortunately eBay has made many believe that this stuff is dirt cheap.A good example is the Boeing 757/767 Radio Comm Panels that showed up on eBay some time ago. There was a HUGE bidding frenzy on 5 of them. A few builders were LUCKY enough to win these panels for $200-$300 each, while the last one was scored for $600! I thought this was insane, until I spent the next month calling companies looking for this EXACT same part. People literally LAUGHED at me when I asked them to sale them to me for less than $1,000. A few companies said they would sale them to me for $1,200 if I bought 5 units, while some quoted as high as $2,800 EACH for "as removed" units. I eventually found a company who would sale them for $700, but I had to negotiate with more than 18 companies to find them.I also had a real 757/767 EVAC panel a few years years ago that I bought off eBay for $75. I traded it to a sim builder for some nice remade knobs. Now that I need this part it is nowhere to be found (he wants his of course :-). I never saw another one on eBay or anywhere else. I ended up paying a shop like $500 for it, but it looked virtually like new. I could tell stories like this for days about myself and other sim builders.Finding cheap aircraft parts on eBay is like finding a real diamond Cartier wrist watch at a resale shop, or finding a nice Mercedez-Benz at GoodWill. It's excellent for those who are fortunate enough to find these deals, but you should consider yourself forunate indeed as it could very well be the last time you ever see that part on there :-)Respectfully,RobertP.S. - This message is in no way meant to have a negative or "angry" tone. This conversation pops up on this forum every few years as the price of this stuff continues to climb :-) Until airplane are about about 40-50 years old, you can expect to pay top dollar for the stuff.

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>just a bunch of hustlers on the sideline.>There's plenty around

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3 of the best items in my sim were donated to me and I am forever grateful to this person. He donated a real 777 faceplate, along with 2 747 EFIS panels.These items were free, however I spent a weekend at his place, programming his EPIC system and installing several control systems, so I guess the trade was even. :-)This hobby is getting to be quite expensive, and I can only assume it's because local boneyards are getting a lot of calls lately for parts that have never seen the light of day. Classic supply and demand in action.

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>>>>>>>These items were free, however I spent a weekend at his place, programming his EPIC system and installing several control systems, so I guess the trade was even.>>>>>>>>that's the kind a deal we may all expect. It is a model of what should be our every day. Gratulations.Roger

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Robert,There is undoutbtely a big raise in the prices. I followed the bids regarding the 757 radio panels and I find it insane, indeed.If there are some "rare" rich cockpit builders ready to spent as much as they would spent for a real plane, it is their right.I believe that the majority of us are not rich, and so me, because if I would I would never spent so much time building a cockpit. I would just buy the plane. As an PPL IR, I used to fly a lot of advanced single and twin engines. Now I cant afford it anymore and that's why I build a cockpit simulator. So I will ever try, and help other to find the best way to come to the best result with the best price. When some plastic dummies parts are not in relation to the asked price, I will say loud and clear. So also with some real parts. It is obvious that some sharks ruling aircraft boneyards are just discoreving a new way to increase their profits. It is their right. It is our right to say "STOP THE INSANITY" and "NOT" to follow the trend.best to allRoger

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