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Guest kdfossum

Accurate measurements

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Hey, I'm brand new to this forum. Just found it and it's awesome. You guys/girls have tought me lots already.Here's my question.Where can I find accurate measurements?I am going to build a 744 and I want it to be perfect the first time. Actually when I'm done, I dont even want a real 744 captain be able to see the difference.I'm starting with the pedestal. From my understanding it is constructed the same way as a stereo rack, where there are tracks with screw holes to hold the panels in place. I am not buying panels yet, but I want to build the box itself, as close to real as possible, and I run into problems on the measurements, because the panels I see are different width. The CDU is much wider than the panels themselves.I dont even know what panels to get. I see many people making panels, and they are great, but the more I see, the pickier I become.I notice many panels are backlit, and I want that. But they still look fake, with painted on screws. They look alittle too perfect to me. Real 744 panels are bulkier in a way.Sorry, I'm getting off my own topic. I'm basicly looking for accurate measurements for the 744 center pedestal. Height, width, length etc. Anyone know where to find it?Really appreciate your help.

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>Hey, I'm brand new to this forum. Just found it and it's>awesome. You guys/girls have tought me lots already.>>Here's my question.>Where can I find accurate measurements?>>I am going to build a 744 and I want it to be perfect the>first time. Actually when I'm done, I dont even want a real>744 captain be able to see the difference.Well, thats hard. Unless you use real parts, the difference will be noticable to someone who "works there". Do you the cockpit from Matt Sheill, he probably has the most advanced 744 home cockpit. http://www.hyway.com.au/747/747.html>I'm starting with the pedestal. From my understanding it is>constructed the same way as a stereo rack, where there are>tracks with screw holes to hold the panels in place. Yes. These are called DZUS. The holes are spaced at 3/8 inches (0.375"). Knowing this helps guess sizes of panels, because the panels have to be a multiple of that number.>I am not buying panels yet, but I want to build the box>itself, as close to real as possible, and I run into problems>on the measurements, because the panels I see are different>width. The CDU is much wider than the panels themselves.>Sorry, I'm getting off my own topic. I'm basicly looking for>accurate measurements for the 744 center pedestal. Height,>width, length etc. Anyone know where to find it?I have measurements for overhead and MIP. http://cockpit.varxec.de/plans/ On paper I also have some numbers for the pedestal. Not complete yet. Some known numbers are from datasheets from gables. They make the RTP, TCAS and some others.see here:http://www.gableseng.com/b747.aspRegards,Manuel

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Thank you. Yes I have seen Matt Sheill's cockpit, an amazing project. I think I even wrote him once to ask where he had gotten his measurements, but realized alot of what he had was from real aircrafts. So that might be the way to go.So these DZUS are pretty much the racks that the panels are mounted into right? If I buy panels made for flight sim, as supposed to real panels, will these follow a certain standard as far as screw spacing etc.?I will be needing the overhead plans when I get that far, but for now I will concentrate on the pedestal, which is a good start I think.Thanks for your helpBest regards,Kevin

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>Thank you. Yes I have seen Matt Sheill's cockpit, an amazing>project. I think I even wrote him once to ask where he had>gotten his measurements, but realized alot of what he had was>from real aircrafts. So that might be the way to go.>>So these DZUS are pretty much the racks that the panels are>mounted into right? If I buy panels made for flight sim, asDZUS has some specs available. Look for the aviation kind of the "quarter turn fasteners". There's a online catalog on their site. It has pdfs with tech data.http://www.dzus.co.uk>supposed to real panels, will these follow a certain standard>as far as screw spacing etc.?I guess they only do when buying all from one manufacturer. I don't think there is a standard for sim stuff.>I will be needing the overhead plans when I get that far, but>for now I will concentrate on the pedestal, which is a good>start I think.OK, found the paper with some numbers:RTP,WXR 2.625"ATC/TCAS 2.25" (there are quite a few different models available, some with different sizes)EVAC 2.25" MCDU 9.0" ???ACP 4.5" ???Autobrake ??Seatbelt ??Interkom ?? (different models avail)rudder trim ?? (different models avail)printer 6.375" ?? (small kind) (different models avail)All three rows are 5.75" wide.The numbers with question marks are guesswork, looking at a.net pictures and relating the sizes of known panels to those of unknown size, taking the 0.375" DZUS hole distance into account.Its not easy to find numbers, but what makes it harder is that nearly every B744 has a different layout for the pedestal.Lets see, maybe we can get those numbers together...Compared to the numner of B744 home builders, publicly available numbers for dimensions are rare. That the reason why I compile them and provide those drawings on my site.Regards,Manuel

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Checking that website from the 747 again tnx to your post.I admire their shell so much! It's awesome.It made me start trying to get a shell designed in 3D. And I have to say, it is working out super! I have the outside shell now. Just need to work some more on this when I get home because there I can measure what I've got from inside-stuff ;) .Tnx for the unintentional help :D

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That's awesome. Thanks for your effort.So, I found a Auto Break Panel (sim type) that measures 6.375mm (2,5")? That's the panel itself, not between the screw holes.Are the measurements you have between the screws, or the panel itself?I assume it's between the screws, so I will do some figuring.Please correct me if I'm wrong.Awesome help. Thanksrgrds,Kevin

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Oh wait, your measurements are the panels themselves. How much room they actually take in the pedestal. That makes it easier to figure then.So now if I do 5,75 x 3 for the width, I should still leave alittle extra room right?I'm thinking I should buy one panel, even if it's w/o electronics, just to get the width correct.Kevin

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>Oh wait, your measurements are the panels themselves. How>much room they actually take in the pedestal. That makes it>easier to figure then.Yes.>So now if I do 5,75 x 3 for the width, I should still leave>alittle extra room right?Yeah, a few millimeters maybe.>I'm thinking I should buy one panel, even if it's w/o>electronics, just to get the width correct.Just look at the datasheets from gables. see link in my first reply.I wanna get a real panel someday, but just to look at how they are done, materials wise and to see the backlighting and such.Manuel

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Showoff :(What are you using? GMax or 3DSMAX? Cos with 3DSMAX you can export to DXF

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what is DXF ?obviously I use 3DSmax ;) otherwise I wouldn't get this good a render.

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ah, I checked.DXF indeed. autocad filezz.why would that be usefull ?

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This helps alot. I can actually put some plans together now.So by looking at a common pedestal set up I've found a picture of, same setup as shown on Jerome Meriweather's site. http://www.meriweather.com/747/747_main.htmlI could now easily figure the length of the pedestal. I found measurements of an Auto Breaks panel of the flight sim kind, and it measured 2,5".So that way I can get a complete third row:RTP 2.625"ACP 4.5"TCAS 2.25"Auto Breaks 2.5"Printer (small) 6.375"That should all measure 18.25". So that would be the length of the pedestal.I am not good with american measurements though, I live in the US, but I was raised in Norway, so metric is my system.If you see a mistake, please correct me.Thank you for your time. Youre of great help.rgrds,Kevin

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>This helps alot. I can actually put some plans together now.>>So by looking at a common pedestal set up I've found a picture>of, same setup as shown on Jerome Meriweather's site.>http://www.meriweather.com/747/747_main.html>>I could now easily figure the length of the pedestal. I found>measurements of an Auto Breaks panel of the flight sim kind,>and it measured 2,5".2.5" can't be the real number since it doesn't fit into the 0.375" DZUS steps. The sim stuff often is good to give you an idea, but often they are not exactly the real size, sometimes because it wasn't possible the accomodate the switches/whatever you put behind the panels. (similar problem with FDS's MIPs. They accomodate monitor bevels, so they have to be wider than the real thing)>So that way I can get a complete third row:>>RTP 2.625">ACP 4.5">TCAS 2.25">Auto Breaks 2.5">Printer (small) 6.375">That should all measure 18.25". So that would be the length of>the pedestal.Ok, I went through some pictures and did some comparisons, computationsd and crosschecks. I believe the pedestal DZUS have 51 holes, which translates into 19.125" (51*0.375)The small printer should be 6", the large (long) one should be 10.125".The ACPs should be 4.125", the MCDU 9", the trim panel (without centering korry switch) 3.75", the one with centering switch 4.5", the interkom 2.25", and the autobrake 2.625"the seatbelt panel should be either 3" or 3.375" depending on modelWith those numbers I crosschecked a couple of airliners.net pictures and added up the numbers for all three rows of panels. It made sense for all checked configurations of 744 pedestals I looked at.I'm about 90% confident (subjectively) that those values represent the real thing.I will make a dxf drawing of my findings and put it up together with my other drawings on my cockpit website.>I am not good with american measurements though, I live in the>US, but I was raised in Norway, so metric is my system.Well, I'm from Germany, so metric is my "natural system" although I can work ok with inches. (On the other hand, I altitude in meters are of no use to me :-)>Thank you for your time. Youre of great help.You're welcome :)Manuel

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>Ok, I went through some pictures and did some comparisons,>computationsd and crosschecks. I believe the pedestal DZUS>have 51 holes, which translates into 19.125" (51*0.375)I'm going to go with the 19.125" and call it good. I don't think we can get any closer than that. I want the size to feel like the real thing, but I don't want to make it too small, so I can't fit everything into it.Should I add 0.375", since 51 holes is probably measured from centre of the holes, just to accomodate the edges, and to make sure it will all fit...?>I'm about 90% confident (subjectively) that those values>represent the real thing.That's close enough for me:)>I will make a dxf drawing of my findings and put it up>together with my other drawings on my cockpit website.That will be greatly appreciated. I havent found that anywhere else. Good help for everyone in the community.>Well, I'm from Germany, so metric is my "natural system">although I can work ok with inches. (On the other hand, I>altitude in meters are of no use to me :-)I do know inches and feet and such, and I do have a feeling of how much it is, but figuring in inches is not easy, especially when you get desimals. It's ok if you say 3 3/16", and I know what that is.Metric makes more sense to me though. I dont know what the americans are thinking. hehe. Although, I perfer feet over meter too in altitude.Thanks again,Kevin

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Cos you can shove it into AutoCAD and get measurements and layouts for it in orthogonal projection, which is handy if you plan on building panels to fit :)

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>orthogonal projection??I can read measurements in 3Dmax as well. And I got panels already. I need this frame to fit what I have already ;)My panels are based on STORK CAD drawings so 100% perfect and real.

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>Cos you can shove it into AutoCAD and get measurements and>layouts for it in orthogonal projection, which is handy if you>plan on building panels to fit :)This can't e very exact.Not everybody has AutoCAD. From what I remember, it costs several thousand dollars. Thats just not something most people can afford for private use.I know that some people don't care, they just look for illegal copies on the internet. This should not be encouraged through references to "popular programs" on forums like this.There are plenty of other CAD programs, some more or less affordable, some even free.Manuel

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I guess I'm one of the lucky ones as I use AutoCAD for work. I also use 3DSMAX for the same reason :) All very expensive, but if you can get someone else to bite the bullet and buy it for you, so much the better :)Just don't ask what I do for a living, the answer may seem a bit corny ;)

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I will get AutoCAD next year. It's one of the tools used in school. I now do Multimedia & Communication Technology. That's how I got stuff like all the Macromedia stuff and all MS software + development tools + SDK's etc and 3D Studio Max.Next year I'll change to IPO (industrial product designing) and there I'll get AutoCAD latest version for something like 12.5 euro :D

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Stop making everyone else jealous ;)Of course, you could offer to make up plans for cockpits etc for those who don't have the software! Think of all the kudos :(

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right !then I can ask $$$$$$$ for it and join the "way to long to read em all cuz boring after a while" topic here 'bout prices are to high and such :D

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>Of course, you could offer to make up plans for cockpits etc>for those who don't have the software!If i'm not mistaken he's already doing that :(Anyway Autodesk and Discreet programs (namely Autocad and 3DS MAX) are available with student licences, for a small fraction of the price.Same version, same program, you only get restrictions in what you can do with the results of the program usage.

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That wasn't *quite* what I meant!The idea was that if someone had a brilliant design and wanted to share it, but didn't have a CAD program, he/she could pass the details on to someone who has the software and get it done that way. The idea is more presentable and understandable, and helps a lot of other people too. And if it's not too complex (as if any of our stuff is :() there shouldn't be a need to charge for it either.We're a community, we help out, it's just another way of making life easier for the rest of us :D

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My phrase was a joke, because Porkere actually provided me with some usefull designs of his in a matter of minutes :)My points about buying the softwares were for information only.Surely being helped by someone who already has the soft would be nice, but in this case i bet there would be communications problem for people leaving on different sides of the planet ;)

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