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external gauge exe

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Since a day or 2 I got my PCI gracard back installed and I have to say that I am not happy at all about the drop in FPS I get in FS9 when doing the double screen stuff. If this stays like it is now I won't be able to put up much clouds and have only half the autogen and have to cut in my scenery dencity otherwise landing is near slideshow'ish.First of all .. are there any things I might try to improve this situation? I thought I read on the MS FS site that they suggest you to go to framed mode, undock the panels you want on other displays, then move them to their place and then go to full screen mode again. Only problem is that I can not select fullscreen. So was that crap MS wrote ? Or am I doing something wrong then ?If this doesn't work out then I might want to make something similar than PM or FreeFD or whatever myself.Big question now is: what is used to make such things? Is that OpenGL ? What else is there to use to make grapichs from gauges in an exe ? What language to program it in ? Could it be done with VB.Net ? Where can I learn about e.g. OpenGL programing ? Any books I might read ?You might say now .. if you don't know how to do this you shouldn't start. I say .. I don't know how to do this and I want at least to have a look at it and then decide if it's a stupid idea or not. I will soon have not much else to do on the sim than that (other than flying) so ... why not.And if that doesn't work out .. maybe I could ask someone to make them for me and pay for them ?All suggestions are welcome!

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Hi Philippe,Thanks for your help last week. Check out http://www.opengc.org/ they have a developers area that you may find useful. Again the programming language of choice seems to be C or one of it's derivatives but VB with the .Net framework is certainly fast enough now I think.ZK-SHBIf it isn't Boeing, I'm not going.http://www.737simbuilders.com/

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Hi there, Philippe. Sorry about the delay on the external .exe program, I got sidetracked by some work related stuff, plus I had decided to make a major change in the way I was writing it, by writing a single ActiveX conbtrol that I could apply properties to rather than writing each gauge seperately.I am going to get back on with it, and will let you know how it's proceeding. To answer your general questions, though, the easiest way is probably to write in Visual Basic. OpenGL is more powerfull, but something like flat panel gauges really doesn't need that level of 3D graphics power.Richard

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I had just checked openGC but didn't find any link or e-mail or whatever to address some questions to anyone there. Only the forum to which I registered and found only 2 posts yet :(None the less, now there is 3 :)I would want to use VB.Net for making such a thing but I don't know how to make graphics. Maybe I am thinking all wrong here.

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>Hi there, Philippe. >>Sorry about the delay on the external .exe program, I got>sidetracked by some work related stuff, plus I had decided to>make a major change in the way I was writing it, by writing a>single ActiveX conbtrol that I could apply properties to>rather than writing each gauge seperately.>>I am going to get back on with it, and will let you know how>it's proceeding. >>To answer your general questions, though, the easiest way is>probably to write in Visual Basic. OpenGL is more powerfull,>but something like flat panel gauges really doesn't need that>level of 3D graphics power.I beg to differOpenGL is the cure for jaggies.Don.

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>I had just checked openGC but didn't find any link or e-mail>or whatever to address some questions to anyone there. Only>the forum to which I registered and found only 2 posts yet :(>None the less, now there is 3 :)There is a (very low volume) mailinglist for OpenGC (and the link is on the main page) http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=29968OpenGC is written in C++ and it uses OpenGL. It is Open Source.It might be worth getting the lastest sources from CVS and compile it yourself.>I would want to use VB.Net for making such a thing but I don't>know how to make graphics. Maybe I am thinking all wrong>here.

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I asked PM's ES if he could do something, he replied they were going to develop this and that development cost would be beyond 30.000 euro.I think that determins what I think of PM then ..30.000 euro means that 1 person is going to work 1 year on this, fulltime.30.000 euro @ 15 euro / h = 2000 hours in total @ 8 h / day = 250 days365 days / year ( 365/7*5 = 260 week days - say 10 holiday days ) = 250 daysOw and then that person is going to get a bonus as well cus he sais "beyond" ... Ow btw, 15 euros / h is quite a lot if you ask me ..

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Richard:>To answer your general questions, though, the easiest way is>probably to write in Visual Basic. OpenGL is more powerfull,>but something like flat panel gauges really doesn't need that>level of 3D graphics power.Agree. :)Not using OpenGL allows you to use an old PC (which you can get for free often) for your cockpit displays. Thats the same approach I use for my Glass Cockpit Suite, X11GC (which is dormant until I finish my cockpit interface, PHCC)The only disatvantage is, as Don said, you don't get anti-aliasing for free, but I'm looking into getting rid of that problem as well one day (either by software anti-aliasing, or by using some features of X11).Manuel

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That X11GC looked interesting. Is it hard to learn how to use it ? And can one modify how the gauges look ? I should read the page from top to bottom in a few. First I go eat :D

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Hi there,Well you can divide your calculation from time perspective with two, since when it is your business, you have to pay a lot of other costs, for example in Finland if I hire a guy to do coding, for his hour rate (salary) I have to pay 1.8 times more for his requirement to goverment then I have to calculate support and marketing issues, computers, office rent + other things on the top of that so actual development cost for you 15 Euro / hour is not very much.People around this hobby do not always understand that when you do something as a profession, it is a different ball game than code something for own use. Trying to make a living around this small "niche" group is difficult since market is so little and development costs has to cover and at the same time you try to get out of it your salary. Very difficult... What is good thing is that there is different kind of org dot based groups that together create wonderful freeware stuff for us.I am not trying to blame or flame just to clear up stuff...// Joni

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Ok, all good for me.But why does he sell Airbus and Boeing type GC for .. lets say $ 400 and RJ for $ 99 and dito on the cessna-stuff for $ 99 and when I ask him if possible to do something that looks a bit like F50 he comes with a number like 30.000 .......I have to say what I am looking for doesn't have to look as good and 3D like the other softwares. Also what I am looking for already exists. It's an Airbus type PFD (just the horizon, so not the altitude & speed bars) and the Boeing type ND which doesn't have to be as advanced by far. Then there is the engine gauges and I don't even need all of them.I think he could just have well send me an honest mail stating "I don't want to do this for you."At least thats my thought ..

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Ok, sorry if I jump to conclusions to quickly once again.I should contact him again before spulling my guts here ..

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Hi again... =)What if you put second PC up and run gauges over the wideview? It is much more cheaper anyway. The clouds seems to be quite a frame killer in FS9. I have flying for a while with fs2002 and my opinion is that if you are flying IFR it is very good option and frames will be doubled.Benefits with fs2002 is also panel handling, you can drive visual in full view instead of flying it with windowed mode. But if you are flying VFR and smaller AC, fs9er is the one.// Joni

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Gauges over wideview is not possible with the new version for FS9. I do not want to go back to FS8.I have been thinking and re-read the tips on the MS FS site on multi-windowing and I think I know where the problem is.In FS9 gauge windows are 3D accelerated as well. Only I think if you turn that off in the cfg file. Which I will try.They tell us to use either dual head cards or 1 AGP and 1 PCI but mind that both card should comply to the games minima. There's my problem. My S3ViRGE is not good enough. Then they tell us to undock the windows we want on other displays, move them to their place and turn on full-screen mode again. I can not do that latter.I was thinking that having the ND and such on external gauges is not a good sollution. It would require either that I take ALL plane systems out of FS or else it should be able to communicate with Espens panel which would be virtually impossible.So first I'll try putting 3D panels off. Then I will take out the autogen bug .. see if that helps (I didn't do that yet because I was rather happy with the FPS before). And if all this doesn't help I will start looking for a decent PCI video card.

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MS tells me these are the minimum specs for the gracards so this is what I want to find. Nothing more, nothing less. Anyone got a price indication on such a PCI card ?8 Mb of video memory, full 3D hardware acceleration, and DirectX 9 compatible drivers

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Ok thnx, this helps.I think I've found something on E-bay.ATI Radeon 7000 PCI 64MB-DDR MacOr does this only work on Mac and not on PC ?

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Phillppe, look for pci versionI have 5 screens on single PC and 3 of the cards are the ATI 7000 pciWorks great for 2d

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>Ow and then that person is going to get a bonus as well cus he>sais "beyond" ... Ow btw, 15 euros / h is quite a lot if you>ask me ..Well, try to find a programmer who will work for 15 Euros/h...I think that double to 4 times that much is more likely.Manuel

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>But why does he sell Airbus and Boeing type GC for .. lets say>$ 400 and RJ for $ 99 and dito on the cessna-stuff for $ 99>and when I ask him if possible to do something that looks a>bit like F50 he comes with a number like 30.000 .......Simple:the 99-400$ are the costs for a user license. It gives you a (very limited) right to use the program. It doesn't allow you copying and sharing it with others, it (usually) doesn't allow you to run the program on more than one machine at the same time... For details see the License agreement.the 30000 $ are the "development costs". It means that they will program something for you after certain specifications.If they call it "development costs", it usually means that you don't even have the right to the source code or that they can't sell it later on. Thats whats often done in the software world. One customer pays all the development costs, and but then the programmer will sell others the rights to use the program for say 10-1000$.Manuel

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>That X11GC looked interesting. Is it hard to learn how to>use it ? And can one modify how the gauges look ? I should>read the page from top to bottom in a few. First I go eat :DAll the gauges are vector graphics. Currently its done by modifying code. (C++). Later it might be possible to define the gauges using XML or something like that.As for your other question concering flightgear/linux:It is possible to define/program different protocol backends. Doing something like that (like programming an interface for say FSUIPC) wouln't be too hard I imagine. The flightgear interface isn't even started yet. As for the operating system, it is probable that you can compile it under win* if you use the cygwin environment. It also comes with an X11 port.http://cygwin.com/http://www.cygwin.com/xfree/If someone would add FSUIPC to X11GC, that would also benefit PHCC, since both projects share code. :)If you'd like to check out the X11GC code, email me directly.Manuel

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The one I pointed out here is a PCI version ...I saw only it said Mac at the end just when I bid 3 euro for the card :sSo if this one is no good, I should hope someone else bids more than 3. If this card is OK, than I should hope no one else bids higher :(But now I am egor to know if this was a mistake or not.

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With an attitude like that, no wonder all those softwares cost so much .. you don't happen to work for M$, do ya ? :(

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Fieuw! Somone just bid more than 3.I just noticed that indeed when I use the PCI card that I got, I am not flying 3D accelerated mode ! WEIRD that I hadn't noticed this before ! Cuz in FS2002 when not in accelerated mode you could awefully see the difference. Now it just seems to difer on the FPS.Ok then I should look again for an ATI 7000 PCI.Any other suggestions for cards that might work from the same price category ?

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