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Guest mmorrell

FSBUS Flash Sequence question

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Hi all,I'm new to using FSBUS and am having problems understanding the flash sequence.I have successfully flashed the FSKEY board - after flashing when I read the PIC I can see the data there. Then I shut off the power - move the jumpers to normal and short the reset. After that when I read the FSKEY board it comes up with all 3FFF's again.Where am I going wrong? The manual is pretty difficult to understand, and only references what you should see on an LED card (dahes).Any assistance is appreciated!

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When the jumpers are in normal operating position, you can't read the pics. It is clearly stated in the docs.That's because the data lines used to read/write the eeprom on the pics, are the same used for data exchange in normal mode.And besides, the pics need a particular "reset" command issued by pin4 MCLR to begin read/write, command which is not possible when in normal op.Anyway, the reset is not needed if you complitely take off power.It may be needed if you don't, but in my experience i never needed to issue a manual reset.

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Welcome to the FSBus system.Once you move the jumpers to normal you cannot use the flash read - no matter what you have programmed - key, display etc. You can only read the PIC in flash mode.Having said that, easiest way to test the keyboard is either set up a quick toggle switch and connect it.Go to key test set the CID to the key number and then press the switch and see if a number comes up.If you don't have a switch around just short a key switch pair.Ie in a normal state you have the two pins and the diode, just connect the two pins and you should see the status change in the key test.Hope this helpsLaurence Merraine

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Guys,Thanks - but I still don't understand... Are you saying that the controller and each device is supposed to stay in the FLASH mode to use? Also - I have connected a second FSKEY board but it still comes up as CID 1. I am finding it almost impossible to follow the docmenteation - the translation is not very good and I am having a hard time figuring it out... sentences like:"The CID is a value, which is contained in the packet everyone".The only document I have is "router Operating Instructions Rev. 2.0 9/2003-09019" and is 8pages long.Sorry for the confusion... wish I spoke Dutch or German or whatever :)

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>Thanks - but I still don't understand... Are you saying that>the controller and each device is supposed to stay in the>FLASH mode to use? No, we are saying that you are able to read and write pics only in program mode.In normal op mode, you can't read the memory.It's meant to be this way.>Also - I have connected a second FSKEY board but it still>comes up as CID 1.Have you changed the cid BEFORE programming it?Did you do the "Write PIC Configuration"?>Sorry for the confusion... wish I spoke Dutch or German or>whatever :)When i have to deal with FSBUS docu, i wish it too :)

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I have looked through the docs and have no clue how to write the CID to a particular board. Also - I don't know what you mean when you say PRGRAM MODE - that is NOT flash and NOT normal? Is that the jumper on the COMM board? What are the two positions, if so?Can some one describe the exact sequence I need to follow?Heres what I am doing...1: set the jumpers on the FSKEY to flash.2: set the jumper on the COMM board to the lower set of pins3: erase the PIC4: read the PIC (all 3FFF's)5: write PIC configuration6: flash the PICwhen done I can read the data from the PIC - great up to this point. If I put the jumpers on the FSKEY board back to the normal position and then READ the PIC, it is back to all 3FFF's. The documentation I am working from does not specify the sequesnce beyond what I have written above. Very frustrating experience. Is there another document I should be working from?

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>I have looked through the docs and have no clue how to write>the CID to a particular board. Also - I don't know what you>mean when you say PRGRAM MODE - that is NOT flash and NOT>normal? Is that the jumper on the COMM board? What are the>two positions, if so?Sorry for the confusion, your thoughts are the right ones: by program mode i meant "everything in flash (also known as program) mode".>Can some one describe the exact sequence I need to follow?Yours is right.But you forget one little point: setting the CID before clicking onto "FLASH".>when done I can read the data from the PIC - great up to this>point.That's right because you're still in FLASH mode.>If I put the jumpers on the FSKEY board back to the>normal position and then READ the PIC, it is back to all>3FFF's.That's right again: in normal position you can't read pics.

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So once I flash the PIC I leave the jumpers in the F:LASH position, correct?What is the jumper on the COMM board? I have to put it in the upper position to flash the board.Still do not know how to set the CID - I am programming in FSROUTER and added a second FSKEY board but if I click on a button in AUTOSENSE it comes up with the CID1 matrix and steps on the stuff on the other board.I'm ready to throw the whole works in the trash. Is there no decent english documentation anywhere for this system?

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>So once I flash the PIC I leave the jumpers in the F:LASH>position, correct?It depends: what do you want to do?If you want to read the pic: yesIf you want to use your card: noListen, it's pretty straight forward once you have the cards working (as you do):there are two operating modes, FLASH (or program mode) and NORMAL.PICs, in order to work, must be programmed first.So (pretty intuitively) you have to first program them, and then they will work.So first put the rig into FLASH (PROGRAM, that's why i called it so) mode, and flash the pics.Then put the rig in NORMAL mode and verify they work by testing them.>What is the jumper on the COMM board? I have to put it in the>upper position to flash the board.This jumper is the main FLASH/NORMAL mode selector.If you switch only the jumpers on the single cards, but not the one on the com board, you won't program anything.>Still do not know how to set the CID - I am programming in>FSROUTER and added a second FSKEY board but if I click on a>button in AUTOSENSE it comes up with the CID1 matrix and steps>on the stuff on the other board.:-eekIn the FLASH PIC window, just below the dropdown menu where you select the type of firmware (CC DISP,CA DISP,KEY and so on), there is the dropdown menu for CID assignement: just select the cid before flashing the card, and you'll have your card with the selected cid.You should have already noticed this menu since you have been able to change to KEY the first menu...>I'm ready to throw the whole works in the trash. Is there no>decent english documentation anywhere for this system?No there is not. Dirk is deutch and so are many of the users and they are not that friendly with english.If you know anyone who know deutch good and wish to translate...The system is pretty easy to understand: no need to go technical.It just needs a little getting accustomed.I have looked at other solution, noone is simpler.On the contrary many are more complex then FSBUS.This is not to diminish their value, EPIC (for example) will remain the best, but with power comes difficulty: EPIC is the most complex interface on the market.So i suggest you try to understand the system a little better before throwing it away: you already have it working, what else do you want?You just have to grasp that little bit more, and you'd be safe on your way :)

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Tanks Claudio,I appreciate your answers but they are not address my issues.... previously in this thread it was said that you can not read the PIC in normal mode.Am I to flash it and then move the ju,mpers back? Do I need to power down the FSBUS system to move the jumpers? To program CID2 do I need to disconnect CID1? In the router software when assigning switches it sees both boards as CID 1 - so any additonal key definitions are stepping on the ones I already did for the fist board. If I change any jumpers after flashing then the read comes up blanck.Shouldn't I be able to program it and then open notepad or something and see the letters as I type on the CDU or does it ONLY talk to FSUIPC?How to test after flashing and setting the jumpers back to normal?Can't anyone define a step-by-step process for this to end my confusion?Sorry - I have an excellent understanding of electronics and some basic programming but I am lost on the sequence of the procedure here.

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To Flash I normally only have the board that I'm going to flash connected - and all the other boards disconnected.I always power down between changing the jumpers, but I don't think it's necessary.Step by step as best as I can say.1 - Remove all keys, display etc from the comm3 board except the one you want to program.2 - Set both jumpers to flash on the comm3 and program on the board you're programming.3 - turn on your boards and fire up the router program and do the flash - make sure you keep track of which cid you use and make sure that you don't have two of the same number.4 - Flash the PIC5 - Read the PIC6. Turn off the Boards, change the jumpers on the comm back to normal, as well as the board you have just programmed.7. Turn on the boards.8. Go to key test and make sure the CID that is showing is the same as the board you've just written.9. Build a simple switch - connect it and test it. It should then change the state of 1 spot on the key test.If you are not getting any changes, I would check a board that you know is working properly - one thing I had problems with was shorting the max 232.Feel free to contact me on icq 8825540 if you want to talk it through.

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Thanks - this was the sequence I was needing. I am programming a CDU do I have PLEANTY of switches connected :( Using autosense mto identify them when using the router.One remaining question... how do I flash the CID? At the same time I do the key definitions, but just select CID 2 (or another) other than 1?Thanks.BTW - will the CDU keys then type in to notpead or something or does FSBUS only talk to FSUIPC and not the regular keyboard interface?Thanks.

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Now, how to program a switch to operate the landing lights for example:1. Create a switch object. Set the CID etc correct (use autosense) - verify that the switch works by toggling it and see that the value changes in the router. I think you already got this far.http://tigert.gimp.org/aviation/vatsim/coc...les/fsbus1.jpeg2. Now, you have a switch object. You then need to connect it on the router program to a FS function. The router works much like those old manual telephone switches: on one hand you have the incoming lines (your switch object that reacts to your toggle switch. On the other hand you have FS objects. You need to "connect" these together:3. First select the switch on the list to see the switch settings: CID etc, the checkboxes to invert, down even etc. Leave the checkboxes as default for now.. On the bottom right there is a white "box" where you can right click and select "Add Flight Sim Destination". This now will "route" your switch to a function in MS Flight Simulator. So it pops up a list of stuff, choose Standard -> Aircraft -> Light -> Landing. http://tigert.gimp.org/aviation/vatsim/coc...estination.jpegIf you have FS running, now the switch should do its job. This is the basic principle on how the "Router" works (hence the name) - it *routes* your switch inputs to various FS objects.IF you cannot get it to work, ask and we try to help. There are a lot of options but this is the basic principle how the router works, lets get this working first and lets figure out the rest later :) This is quite a handful at first.Have a panel visible in FS so you can verify if a switch works or not.And like I said, tell us if you dont get it to work :) Once you get your first switch to function, we can get into more in-depth stuff. Like, there are things missing from the default list of FS functions to choose from, but those can be added by the user into myfsif.ini - but lets not get that far yet. The basic stuff is there already.//Tuomas

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Tomas,Thanks - I have the switches defined no problem (CDU), the question becomes setting the CID for each card.Thaks.

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>Thanks - I have the switches defined no problem (CDU), the>question becomes setting the CID for each card.Have you read this?>In the FLASH PIC window, just below the dropdown menu where>you select the type of firmware (CC DISP,CA DISP,KEY and so>on), there is the dropdown menu for CID assignement: just>select the cid before flashing the card, and you'll have your>card with the selected cid.>You should have already noticed this menu since you have been>able to change to KEY the first menu...I can't believe you don't see this.When you first open the FLASH PIC window, the type selected is CC DISP, so you click and select KEY.NOW JUST BELOW THAT there is the CID!Can't you see it?http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/94691.gif

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And just to check: Only flash with one board connected to COM, set the CID and card type, write pic configuration, flash.Then set jumpers back to "normal" use and test with keytest. Should use the CID you set.//Tuomas

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That worked... I think what threw me as well is the AMTEL CID option... any clue what that does?

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Sets the CID for ATMEL chips, a different kind of microprocessors used in the Stepper Board.

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