I came across this forum a few weeks ago and I had no idea that you could do something like this and I have a few questions.1. How much would it cost me to build a DC-9 cockpit ?2. Where do you buy parts for these masterpieces ?3. How do you do it ???? I know I'm a complete noob.4. Does it work with FS2004 ?5. Do you need any special software to make it work with FS9 ?6. If I built a DC-9 cockpit how do I connect it to FS9 and how do I use it with FS9 ?7. Do I need payware DC-9 software ?? Something like the F1 Iron Knuckles DC9 ?Thanks for you help !

Hi,I'll try to give a little bit of an answer. I' started about a year ago to build a 737 cocpit, so my experiences are limited...I will give you my personal views and choices, so please first also ask other builders before you decide to spend any money.>1. How much would it cost me to build a DC-9 cockpit ?This depends fully on the availability of ready made DC9 components, and your ambition and your financial resources. I suspect for a DC9 you will have to construct most parts yourself or modify existing hardware. Instead of giving you a final cost estimate (if possible anyway) I would suggest that you take this as a multi year project and assign an amount of money you want to spend every year. Talking to cockpit builders who have been there a long time, they tell me it is never finished and they keep adding stuff to enhance the realism. To give you some indication:Software: Apart from MS-FS I purchased PMDG 737, FSUIPC and WideFS, and Project Magenta Glass Cockpit and pmSystems. This approximately adds up to Euro 800. Now for the DC9 there is no PM Glass Cockpit, but with pmSystems you can create panels yourself. For current pricing details you will have to send a mail to projectmagenta.com.Hardware Computers: I have 5 connected, most are 4 year old PC's, except for the MS-FS computer rendering the nice graphics. I spent Euro 1250 on this and built/assembled it myself so all components are aimed at MS-FS performance as much as my budget will allow. You can see the specs at http://fly.ekezz.comHardware Screens: You can use CRTs, LCD's and Projectors. I am using a mix of CRT's and LCD's. For the outside view I am using two CRT's. For the Captains PFD and ND I have a LCD, for the standby instruments and upper Eicas I have a CRT. For the FMC/CDU I have a Touchscreen. For the overhead panel I presently use a laptop until the hardware wiring has been completed. The lower Eicas is not implemented yet. Using screens I already had, kept the cost down as my personal priority is on building the overhead panel and adding modules. The touchscreen was a gift from a friend who didn't use it anymore. Ever since friends and collegues hear of my project they sometimes actively offer me their old PC or screen. Now you could make a different choice here. Some builders tell me that the immersion effect is great when utilizing a projector. Others are awed by uzing multiple high res CRT's. You can buy new, you can use old. I'm waiting for a defect projector to show up and replace the defect lamp. For the FMC/CDU screen some use 7 inch LCD's. Anyway, for me it is hard to give you a cost estimate here, but if you know what your preference would be, shop around to get a price indication. And again, you can add better screens over time.Hardware Modules: Today I have a CPflight MCP, EFIS and NAV panel ready to use, plug and play, this approximately adds up to Euro 1000. I want to add more modules so this amount will go up. It is my choice to buy ready to go modules as they are designed for the 737 and represent the real thing. It is also possible to buy modules that have a lower cost, but these don't have the look I want, this is a personal choice. The other option is to build your own panels with all kinds of components like encoders, displays, switches, etc. I have no reference to what that would cost and you need to be "tech savvy" to build it. On Ebay a friend found and purchased a real 747 Cargo panel for me as a present. I'll try to hook it up through the phidgets even though it does not belong in a 737, nice experiment.The next level of realism is to go for very realistic look, feel and functional modules for the FMC/CDU and Throttle Quadrant. My present CH products stick and throttle are ok, but to have a real throttle quadrant with autothrottle etc is a dream, the cost... Euro 1000 and higher.Hardware I/O: There are many types of hardware I/O boards you can hook up your switches and pot's to. All I can say is to read user experiences in various forums and builders websites. I am involved in www.ifsbi.org and you can find a forum and several links from there to cockpit builders webpages, also check out fscockpit.com.What I did was to go for Phidgets (phidgetsusa.com) because I can assign functions from pmSystems directly to Phidgets (you do need FSUIPC and WideFS made by Pete Dowson to be found at schiratti.com). You can also use the interface software, to be found on the phidgetsusa site. My initial Phidgets puchase of 4 boards and all kinds of leds etc set me back 400 Euro's. Then you need (rotary)switches and wiring etc. Now this can also grow over time. I have spent Euro 100 on this, but will need more as I move on to the overhead panel. And I will need more Phidgets boards. So I am expecting this to head up into the total of Euro 1000 (including money already spent).Panels: To have the most realistic view there are some companies that make laser engraved backlit panels. The big parts are the Main Instrument Panel(s), the Overhead panel and the Pedestal. These as a total would set you back between Euro 1000-2000 and then they still need to be wired. I decided for my first year of cockpit building to go for Do-It-Yourself using MDF panels and painting it grey. At a later stage I will convert to the more high fidelity panels. There are some new vendors on the block, so I expect the prices to go down. Including the MDF casing for screens, computers etc, which I put on wheels, I spent Euro 200 so far.Cockpit shell:It is possible to build/order the cockpit shell. This gives an enhanced immersion effect. Can't tell you much about this, so shop around on the web.Documentation:There are some nice books/manuals on the working of the airplane systems, FMC/CDU, checkrides etc. When you get into programming the system logics of your aircraft, reference material is of vital importance. There is free material to be found, but some people have taken the time and effort to write very comprehensive manuals, and this is where I buy it. Total so far Euro 180.Motion Platform:An area that will grow in the next years as it becomes more attainable for the humble soul. Soem builders are putting their own experiment together, some vendors are exploring the possibilities as far as I know.Well, I hope this has shed some light on your questions, in my experience this will lead to more questions. Most of the remaining questions below, I have tried to answer in the story above.I haven't grand totalled the amount spent by me so far, as it makes no sense to do so. It is a very personal choice how much you will spend and it doesn't take into account how you spread the investment over time. All I can say, is that it is well spent because this hobby is very enjoyable and every addition, big or small brings new joy to my flight simulation experience. And I made new friends in wonderful places who share this hobby and understand what I am talking about ;-) Happy building and see you around.Kester [email protected]>2. Where do you buy parts for these masterpieces ? see above>3. How do you do it ???? I know I'm a complete noob. start small and gradually expand over time. determine which parts of simulation have priority to you. Use the categories mentioned above and put them in your preferred sequence.>4. Does it work with FS2004 ?Yes, I use FS2004/FS9 for the outside view and PMDG for the aircraft model, not the PMDG panels though.>5. Do you need any special software to make it work with FS9 ?FSUIPC is a must have and when using multiple computers add WideFS to that list. And I would add pmSystems.>6. If I built a DC-9 cockpit how do I connect it to FS9 and how do I use it with FS9 ?see above>7. Do I need payware DC-9 software ?? Something like the F1 Iron Knuckles DC9 ?I suppose so, like I did with PMDG.

Welcome!There is a tremendous amount of information available for those entering this hobby. This page: http://www.mikesflightdeck.com/getting_started.htm has a number of good links to it.Mikewww.mikesflightdeck.com

Take a look here ...http://www.fscockpit.comBOB

Sorry Mike, should have put your link in my "essay"Kester

Hello where do you live ?1. How much would it cost me to build a DC-9 cockpit ?depend of the level of realism you want from desktop modules to a full close cockpit with motion ... everything is possible2. Where do you buy parts for these masterpieces ?You need to make before a good study of what you want to avoid loosing money in unused device. Try to organise the project in different parts:- outside- inside, seat, light, A/C, etc..- mechanics : rudder, trims, sticks, throttles- panels: backlight ?, pvc or metal, engraved, printed ...- gauges: real, analogue, back-LCD ...- interface: iocard (the best), fsbus, photon, ...- programming: SIOC (the best) pmsystem ( ? for a DC9 ) ...- FSmodules: FSUIPC, WideFS, WideView, Gates.to ...- Computers : how much, how fast ...- Visuals: Projectors, LCD, ...3. How do you do it ???? I know I'm a complete noob.look on the forums, the websites, the other projects4. Does it work with FS2004 ?Yes of course5. Do you need any special software to make it work with FS9 ?FSUIPC, and maybe some ProjectMagenta ? but wait before buytheses soft are not the first thing to purchase.. and maybe you can find some free softs levelD ... etc6. If I built a DC-9 cockpit how do I connect it to FS9 and how do I use it with FS9 ?look at www.opencockpits.com 7. Do I need payware DC-9 software ?? Something like the F1 Iron Knuckles DC9 ?Not necessary.Have fun (and money ...)BOB

>Have fun (and money ...)And lots of patience, insane amounts of free time (we talk about years here - and prepare to spend the first one mostly on research, it pays off - you buy a lot less crap you thought was a good idea)This thing is like a cat - you shouldnt get one unless you understand it needs commitment and effort. You need tools or friends with tools (that love you very much)But welcome indeed.//Tuomas

Is there a list of kits available ? I don't want to start from scratch but I do want to put it together.

Unfortunately, the DC9 isn't right up there with the 737/747/767/777/Airbooses(:-P), so finding stuff in our community may not be a choice.If you need backlit panels and can't find any that someone makes, try finding scaled drawings of the panels. The 737 has many available and so do the rest of the flight decks that are mentioned above. That is what makes them so buildable is the fact that information is plentiful about them.I don't want to discourage you, but for a beast like the DC9 (love it myself, 2nd only to 737NG in my heart), you're gonna have to dig around a little to pry up that stone of information. It's what makes this so hard is the struggle for the ultimate. Once you've realized your goal, not only do you have something fun to play with, but you also get a lot of memories to look back on what got you to this point (and I don't mean done by realized your goal - these things are NEVER done - just a higher level of satisfaction).The more personal a cockpit is, the more you'll enjoy flying it and building it.Once you have your plans for the panels, you need to make a list of the types of hardware you'll need and you might want to make quantities known:Light Indicators2-Position toggle switches3-Position toggle switches3-position single momentary switches3-position double momentary switches30 and 45 degree Rotary switchesknobsrotary encodersLEDsswitch guardspotentiometers (for self-made controls and those lights behind the panel for dimming)tactile switches (for behind some push-to-extinguish lightsNow, you've got your plans for the panels and the parts you'll put on them. See if anyone makes your panels. For a DC9, probably not, so we'll need to build our own. Do we want backlit panels, or will use a light for us to see non-lit panels?If back-lit panels are a must, you'll need panels that are plastic plexiglass-type clear or smoked (smoked seems to let light through but makes the whole panel light up). Unless you're going to dremmel out all those lines and little tiny letters and cut out the holes by hand, you'll need a CNC machine or someone who does. To use a CNC machine, you need CAD-type files with exacting detail. This might be a time to find a friend who knows CAD or see if you can dabble it yourself. CAD isn't easy to learn, but there are classes out there to teach the novice.Plan out a panel and go one by one, starting with those that you'll absolutely have every switch and knob working in your cockpit, then going down to the not-so important. You want a functional deck so you can square it with the boss soon after spending so much time and $$$ to something she just dosn't quite understand (did anyone mention a understanding and helpful wife are a real benefit in this hobby?). Most people start with the MIP/Autopilot, then go to the pedestal, then up to the overhead (the overhead is where it hurts the most - lots of switches that dont work unless another one is switched - this is where PMSystems helps most out)So, we've got our panels planned in 3D and we have an idea where to use a CNC machine to engrave our panels once we have them ready. Now it's off to Lowes, Home Depot, that local paint shop you can't remember the name of. Find out what color the panels and body of the cockpit are. We'll need paint. While we're out, lets see what the cost and sizes of wood or metal (depending on your skills - wood is more basic and easy to work, but bulky making our cockpit a bit bigger), screws, bolts.Ok. So we got an idea what materials we're going to use. Now, we plan out the simulator. Good questions to ask are:Will I ever need to move it from where it is? If so, what size restriction do I have for an accessway to the room it's in? Plan on a doorway, not a garage door (unless you're keeping that car of yours outside).How will I handle maintenance of a panel? How will I take it apart to fix something like a light going out?How will I wire up to my circuit boards (don't worry what type yet)? I am planning on using disconnects for each panel, like a phone cable or RJ45 network cable do fully disconnect each panel from its frame. Adds to the cost, but makes maintenance a breeze.What will I use for backlighting? Lights emit light AND heat. Unless well ventilated, you're better off using stuff for automotive use or computer use (cold-cathode). They emit light, but not any noticable heat. Some use a sheet of light emitting paper called EL-Sheets. Flexible and even light source, you can cut holes in it and it still work, but more expensive than cold-cathode lights.What kind of gauges are in the plane? If they're glass cockpit, you have a few more options. Software can produce the images just like in the real plane. If they're analog gauges, then we have two optionsA: LCD screen behind with software putting out analog look-alikes B: Simkits or other like solution of real gauges with real needlesWhat flight model will I use in flight simulator? Lots of choice here and before we finish, we'll try many of them. Remmber, a panel isn't necessary as we'll have software that takes care of interfacing with flight simulator. A good sound set might be a thought though.What kind of sound system do we want in our plane? 7.1 THX certified might be a bit overkill, but a 100W 4.1 or 5.1 system would do wonders. What ATC will we use? Live on VATSIM/IVAO or ATC in Flight Simulator? If Live, how will we hear them? A thought here might be to use FSUIPC/WideFS (a must and a bargain at the same time - deals on both together at SimMarket.com) and use a separate computer for the instrument displays (leaving FlightSimulator on its own computer hogging all the resources it wants) and SquawkBox or whatever on the display computer as well. With it's own sound card, it can deliver the sounds of ATC via headsets and a panel-built-in splitter system for Captain/FO operations.What kind of visuals will we need? Outside, we'll want to see all around our forward view, so will we use 4 or 5 mointors, 2 plasma/LCD 42" screens, a projector or two (maybe bought, maybe Do It Yourself built).How am I getting the hardware in touch with my computer? This is the question that never has a real answer as to who is better.IOCardsFSBusPHCCPhidgetsPhotonEPICFlightDeckTechnology's SimBoardsGoFlightThe answer lies in the hardware you need to connect. I am connecting all switches and all lights in the 737. Due to the quantities, I cannot use anything except Simboards or EPIC. This is where that list of what you need to connect comes in (remember, each wired position of the rotary switch is 1 switch on the hardware - each toggle position other than off is 1 switch on the hardware).So, we're building something that we'll have to take apart some day for moving purposes, it has to fit through a standard door, and we have glass gauges. Now we can plan out how we'll break up the sim for disassembly as well as making the hardware transit-tested (the LCD screens bolted on the back of your MIP cannot come of - so secure them well). Also, we want something that isn't to hard to re-assemble or too time-consuming to disassemble. Something like hinges with a removable bolt work well (two - top and bottom of the seam). We also want to think about the hardware thats on the overhead hooking up to the hardware on the MIP and pedestal, but in a fashion we can disconnect. SimBoards uses a 10-pin ribbon cable to connect one board to another. Disconnect the boards in the MIP from the Pedestal and from the Overhead to the MIP and we've broken the chain. Use those drawing skills you think are worthless and put something down on paper on how you'll build it. As you're building, you'll get some thoughts as well as to how to take it apart. Now is a time to get your head thinking.I think we've got everything. Our panels are designed. We've figured out where we're getting our parts, we've got access to a machining process that will make our panels. We know where we'll get our paint and what to order when we go there. We know what hardware we'll be using to interface with our computer. We've got a preliminary design as to how the cockpit will come together (I designed my cocpkit and pieces of wood in 3D in Flight Simulator Design Studio for the last few years - took a standard 2x4 or 1x2 or sheet of wood and altered it as if I cut it and just put the pieces together to for a final product. Hopefully, that will aid me in actually building it.Now, we start building. Once you get here, you'll know a lot more than you do now and the questions will be more on topic like "when I'm soldering, what will make the joints more tight?" or "I've noticed the paint on my panel is chipping easily. What can I do to protect it?"Hope this helps you get started in the right direction. Back to my simulator software.

I think you'll find something of interest here:http://www.oncealoft.com/In addition to older aircraft parts, they happen to have a complete DC-9 cockpit for sale. Just click on the "NOSES AND OTHER LARGE THINGS" SECTION. You'll also find some DC-9 and MD-80 parts in the "FOR SALE: RARE AND/OR HARD TO FIND ITEMS" section. Hope this helps.Dan