What control board do you recommend?

[Guest Andy_CYXU]

#1. FDS-G1 Glare Interface Module $500.00#2. GammaRay 256 $225#3. ElectronFlux $300IMPORTANT TO ME: Cathode Display Support and Buttons that light up when active (pressed)... (night lighting of buttons not important all though it would be nice) :)Above I found these three, what I was looking to build is Autopilot Module, Comm and NAV Radio and Landing/Strobe Light Panel.Well one at a time ofcourse will take me some time but I wanted to start with Autopilot, something like you can see on FlightDect Solutions Web Page build using #1 board.What I am looking to have is LED display for HDG/ALT etc and buttons that will light up when active(pressed).#1 is expensive while I would rather buy already made A/P from GoFlight for the same price, never mind it add the price for switches etc... (Buying from GOFlight, downside to me is ofcourse the satisfaction of making it by myself just buying it done)#2 Highly recommended by Alex, but I do not believe from what I red it supports buttons that light up when active (pressed-in) and might not support "Cathode type 7-Segment Displays" (LED Display for ALT/HDG etc.) It is just for basic switches and rotary knobs. Great price and support though and would highly consider for expansion 250+ buttons with GUI interface can't beat that sound great. BTW Alex, very nice cockpit you got there! Really impressive!!! Congrats!#3 !!!MUCH!!! cheaper then #1 not yet quite in production, to my understanding supports both light up switches and display + can use it after to connect more stuff like the Lights Panel and maybe even NAV/COM radios :).However I believe I have enough knowledge to build it, yet never touched this subject, I have put together from parts the last three computers I own all work till this day :) and the P4 2.53 I built almost 1.5 years ago still beats what you buy at the retail stores these days from DELL etc... this stuff is easy to me. However one thing I don't get! and this I think is so easy that's why I just don't get it hard to believe is it that easy or am I missing something.. here it is:Q. How to connect a button or rotary switch to this board.OK so lets say switch has 2 or 3 pins or a rotary switch with 4 pins whatever...Do you just take a wire and connect these 2/3/4 pins to the 2/3/4 pins on an input port on the board then through software you program what you have connected to which port and what you want it to do?? Just like you would for example connect HD LED Light or your PowerSwitch on a computer to the motherboard with the little wires and connector is it as simple as this ??? or am I missing something there :)ThanksAndy

[Guest Dodiano]

Now that you mention it Go-Flight has the modules without panels too I mean like to wire your MCP using the Go-Flight modules and compatible with most software out there could also be an option!!! And is not that expensive either!Regards,Roberto

[Guest LeoL]

Hi Andy,>IMPORTANT TO ME: Cathode Display Support and Buttons that>light up when active (pressed)... (night lighting of buttons>not important all though it would be nice) :)By default, EFlux supports CA displays. CC will be supported but they will be wired differently than CA. I will not offer CC displays so you'll need to wire these up yourself.Buttons that light up when active are independent of the interface you use IF the light is not controlled by the sim. EF supports up to 3 AMPs per card (9 AMPs total), so there's plenty of juice there to light up your illuminated switches if needed.>#2 Highly recommended by Alex, but I do not believe from what>I red it supports buttons that light up when active>(pressed-in)GR can supply up to 500 mA so if you can keep your # of lights below that limit, you won't need to use an external power supply.> and might not support "Cathode type 7-Segment>Displays" (LED Display for ALT/HDG etc.) It is just for basic>switches and rotary knobs.GR does not support outputs. It is an input only board for switches and rotaries.>#3 !!!MUCH!!! cheaper then #1 not yet quite in production, to>my understanding supports both light up switches and display +>can use it after to connect more stuff like the Lights Panel>and maybe even NAV/COM radios <--- would be my choice if my>understanding of it is correctEflux modules will start shipping next week with support for Falcon 4, but support for MSFS is currently under development and I anticipate 2 months before I'm done, but it depends largely on the number of feature requests I get for this plugin.EF will support everything you described above and eventually much more as features will be added over the coming months through firmware updates.>Q. How to connect a button or rotary switch to this board.>>OK so lets say switch has 2 or 3 pins or a rotary switch with>4 pins whatever...>Do you just take a wire and connect these 2/3/4 pins to the>2/3/4 pins on an input port on the board then through software>you program what you have connected to which port and what you>want it to do?? Just like you would for example connect HD LED>Light or your PowerSwitch on a computer to the motherboard>with the little wires and connector is it as simple as this>??? or am I missing something there :)It's that simple really. You'll need to solder the wires to the LED/Switch/Etc. yourself but if you're not afraid of inhaling solder fumes it doesn't get any harder than that. 7-Segment displays might get tricky if you wire up your own though. Note: 2 out of 3 doctors recommend you avoid inhaling solder fumes.-Leo

[Guest alexlaw]

Switches - you have THOSANDS at www.mouser.com and www.digikey.com.I bought at Mouser but others swear by Digikey so you can't lose either way :-)Boards: GR is an input card (256 digital inputs in ONE simple USB board!). For lighting up switches, I used double pole switches and the LEDs are on a separate circuit. There are advantages and disadvantages to this:- Advantages: LEDs have their own 5V supply and do not overload the USB ports. I do not use any "expensive" digital output.- Disadvantages: the on/off light is hardwired and I cannot change the light behavior without re-wiring. If you're not in a hurry, I'd recommend waiting for EF. I will eventually build my entire Lear 45 cockpit around one EF main module with an optional expansion board, just in case. I also plan to add a Plasma Lite card and I will be done. Then I will sell my GammaRay 256 and all GF modules freeing 5 USB slots!A full cockpit on 2 1/2 cards and only TWO USB ports taken - no messy expansion mini-boards, wires, etc. and definitely no "messy" programming. Besides, the absolute price AND price/performance ratio seem to be unparalleled by today's standards.PS:GF made an official announcement 4-6weeks ago that they stopped supporting/selling the RMK modules... so that's not an option anymore :-(

[Guest Andy_CYXU]

Thank you kindly for your responses.I believe that the EFlux would be my best bet to go with, will most all kinds of buttons/rotary knobs and displays be compatible with it like the once sold for example on FlightDeck site? andYou got me lost a little here.. what are CA and CC displays, too quick for me to follow the short forms yet. :)As the software to support MSFS is not yet ready for this board does it mean that I should wait for it to come out because it would not work with flightsim? I am in no hurry still think I got lots of planning to do before coughing up the big bucks.thank you

[Guest alexlaw]

Common Anode and Common Cathode refer to the way the LEDs are wired within a 7-segment display component. Within a Common Anode component, all the Anodes are wired together to a Common terminal while the Cathodes are wired to separate terminals. The Common Cathode component is wired the other way around. I would not worry about this too much with these applications. If the board you want to use supports both, then just decide which you want and stick with it. If not, you have no choice but to use the type the manufacturer recommends.And you are correct, while ElectronFlux is alive and kicking the software that bridges it to MSFS seems not to be ready yet. Beta Innovations' first ElectronFlux customers apparently come from the military simulators (F16/15/18) market hence the initial availability of the software for them.And you are correct again - spend time planning, selecting components and researching materials. It's time well invested. I built an Excel Sheet to help me count the components, decide on the type, assign inputs to functions and check the costs.

[Guest Piaggio]

I would strongly recommend Integrated Flight Systems at http://www.iflightsystems.com/. Scott produces a line of I/O boards called Photon. You will be able to connect all lights, switches and number displays (7 segments) very very easily. Prices for the Photon are very competitive at the moment. Scott has not announced it yet, but he has a line on some new boards for connecting up the LED lights and 7 segment displays that do not require any soldering at all, and are simple to set up. I use Photon and guarantee that it is very easy to build with.I would also probably suggest going to an electronics hobby shop and buying a small electronics kit that has comprehensive building instructions. You could then use this as your learning tutorial into how to solder and wire up different electronic items. That's how many of us started off - building electronic DIY kits before we got into flight sims.Peter.

[Guest alexlaw]

The Photon cards which are on sale now are very old (2years +) technolgy and based on RS232 (another slow and disappearing interface). In some respects (especially price) they are much better than Hagstrom's but there is no free lunch. Invariably, you get what you're paying for, and you'd need quite a few of Scotts cards to even begin covering what the current technology like Electron Flux's does.

[Guest alexlaw]

Sorry - I meant of course "Parallel interface" and NOT RS232 :-)

[Guest Piaggio]

I find that the LPT interface has no performance or setup problems, and the speed of the boards is virtually instantaneous. Scott is designing a USB interface, but it won't be out for a couple of months yet. I found the Photon interface (FSCockpit) particularly easy to use for assigning functions to switches and lights. And now Photon can be used with Aerowinx' PS1 B744 simulator.There's no doubt that Leo's boards (Beta Innovations) are engineering marvels. Although, the new Electronflux is $325 (after Feb 20 according to his site) per board, and I think that for something like a Boeing or an Airbus you may need at least 2 boards. $650 for the boards might be a little high for some builders. Mind you, I guess you certainly do get quality and HID/USB speed for that price.And now you will have the Phidgets and IOcards supporters who must be just itching to throw in their 2 cents as well. The one thing we can say about all of the newer I/O solutions, is that they are light years ahead of Epic for ease of setup!Peter.

[Guest alexlaw]

The parallel port per se has no performance issues that I am aware of except for the fact that eventually it will go out of "production" just like RS232 has. I would not want to build my cockpit around a "disappearing" technology. The " centronics" protocol forces one to keep the PC relatively close to the board, fact which might prove limiting for some setups. Besides, why would I want to have two conections to a FS PC (one thick parallel cable + slender USB cable from the hub) when I can have only one coming from a USB hub accommodating the joystick/yoke, pedals, I/O etc.?EPIC is and will always be the "founding father" of the cockpit building hobby. It was expensive, difficult to master but offered everything that a cockpit builder of the period needed. In some respects, EPIC is still a powerful solution today if it was not for that extremely streep price one has to pay in learning curve etc.Phidgets usage in cockpit building is almost an after-thought. They are too difficult to master for a newcomer and you'd need quite a number of boards to sufficiently match a "Boeing" cockpit. What I'm trying to say is that Phidgets have a place for specific cockpit applications but definitely not as a cost-effective, comprehensive and easy to master total solution.Judging by the Eflux published features, I am not really that sure that one would need two Eflux boards for matching a Boeing cockpit setup. I would certainly bet that you'd need only one + one daughter board, everything set in multiplex mode costing much less that US$600+ estimate. If you go feature by feature and count the control lines, you'd certainly reach the conclusion that you'd need quite a few boards (of any make) to match what a single EF offers - definitely after adding one or two daughter boards. Add up the bits and pieces of any current I/O solution and you'll see how fast you reach $600 while being quite behind in terms of performance, compactness and ease of use. Anyway I am not that sure that the cost will be that high (US$300+), but since I am not involved with Beta Innovations other than being a (nagging) customer, I cannot bet on that.Ppl who build Boeing/Airbus cockpits are ready to invest much, MUCH more than $600 in building their dream cockpit. There are cockpits here which cost their builders 10K and up (or even MUCH more than that). Even my simple cockpit cost me (until now) something around $3000 in terms on time, equipment and material (not including PC's)). It is funny to see them arguing about $20 or $100 more (or less) when the benefits of using a better solution will save them so much in the long run in all the aspects involved in building a successful cockpit. While everybody is entitled to an oppinion one should be more careful when giving advice. As I wrote in one of my previous postings here, cognitve dissonance (and strange, small personal wars) are hard at work here so I tend not to discuss those opinions, and certainly not to spoof threads clearly discussing a specific solution except for when they make false or erroneous claims which can potentially hurt newcommers to the hobby, especially those who have no clue about electronics etc.OT: what cockpit do you have Piaggio? Any link for me?; :-)

[mauriceb]

>>Phidgets usage in cockpit building is almost an after-thought.>They are too difficult to master for a newcomer and you'd need>quite a number of boards to sufficiently match a "Boeing">cockpit. What I'm trying to say is that Phidgets have a place>for specific cockpit applications but definitely not as a>cost-effective, comprehensive and easy to master total>solution.>I would not quite agree with your 'difficult to master for a newcomer' statement. I have used Phidgets with my 737 throttle assembly and I found that their new software was quite good and quite easy to understand. I am using the 8/8/8 board for all the switches & pots, the servo board for the throttle servos and the spoiler servo. I 'm also using the Text LCD with buil-in 0/8/8 board for a digital trim display. Although it took 'a bit' of experimenting to get it all working :-), it wasn't really that difficult and I'm sure within the ability of anyone crazy enough to attempt building a flight deck :-).I do agree though that Phidgets alone would not be the total solution for all elements of a flight deck.Maurice

[Guest alexlaw]

>I found that their new software was quite good>and quite easy to understand. I stand corrected on the "easy" part. I don't have their new software yet so I can't say anything more on the matter :-)As to how easy it is to set up, it really depends on the person. I have a friend who is "crazy enough" to want to build a C172 cockpit and since he has no clue on how to hold a soldering gun or to program, I recommended him to use GoFlight modules. "Wanting" and "being able to" are sometimes quite far apart :-)