I aspire to one day be able to build a 747 simpit. I've been doing some research on this, looking at the links provided on this message board and other message boards as well. Now I wanted to "maybe" in quotations, start off with the MCP. There is one on the GoFlight website that retails for $499. But I've been looking at how other people are building their MCPs from scratch. Now I guess there are different methods to interfacing a custom built MCP into FS2004. I was wondering if the keyboard hack applies to this kind of interfacing? I am looking at the PMDG MCP Keyboard commands section and I can assign keys to different buttons and switches on the PMDG 747 MCP. So I'm thinking there shouldn't be any problems hacking the keyboard for use with the custom built MCP, right? I don't have alot of experience with wiring stuff, other than subwoofers, head units, and amps, and even looking at some tutorials on keyboard hacking, I'm still out in left field on this one lol. And also if it is possible, say I want to make my own CDU, could I essentially wire that to another USB keyboard and plug that into the computer as well? The goal for right now, If I go ahead and decide to do it this way, is to have the MCP and the CDU interface to one computer instead of 2.

There are many suppliers of interface cards for you to build an FMC for your flight deck.I'm using Beta Innovations card for my Boeing 727 throttle, but there are many, many others on the market.Hacking a keyboard is the long way around these days. A decade or less ago, a keyboard hack was about the only way to do what you are asking about.Keyboard hacking comes with it's own problems that the new interface cards eliminate. Some cards can be used with rotary encoders, all sorts of switches, they will run LED's, and provide additional axes.I saw that warm welcome where you first posted this message. I don't post in that particular forum as they have little to offer for my particular sim, but I do post in the 'General' area.You will receive a warmer welcome here: http://mycockpit.org/ See you there.

>There are many suppliers of interface cards for you to build>an FMC for your flight deck.>>I'm using Beta Innovations card for my Boeing 727 throttle,>but there are many, many others on the market.>>Hacking a keyboard is the long way around these days. A decade>or less ago, a keyboard hack was about the only way to do what>you are asking about.>>Keyboard hacking comes with it's own problems that the new>interface cards eliminate. Some cards can be used with rotary>encoders, all sorts of switches, they will run LED's, and>provide additional axes.>>I saw that warm welcome where you first posted this message. I>don't post in that particular forum as they have little to>offer for my particular sim, but I do post in the 'General'>area.>>You will receive a warmer welcome here:>http://mycockpit.org/ See you there.WOW thank you for your kind reply. I was starting to believe that the internet was filled with pricks lol. Yeah I read that response at Flight Deck Solutions so I left my last reply on there.My main point of even asking the question was to hopefully cut down on cost. Yeah I could just go ahead and shell out $500 bucks for the GoFlight MCP but if I can spend less than that on crafting my own the correct way, than that would be a better deal. Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

Well, disagree somehow..bout pricksI active and browsing both forums on dayli basis and all i know bout simbuilding comes from this particulary one, moustly by searchingBelieve me ,you able to find almoust all possible answers on your questions Just try search and you will see I have to add , that both forums are great and folks are very kind,responsible and helpful, but sometime responces are not instant and takes day or two , and even moreWish you luck and joy with this hobbyRegards

>Well, disagree somehow..bout pricks>>I active and browsing both forums on dayli basis and all i>know bout simbuilding comes from this particulary one, moustly>by searching>>>Believe me ,you able to find almoust all possible answers on>your questions >Just try search and you will see> >I have to add , that both forums are great and folks are very>kind,responsible and helpful, but sometime responces are not>instant >and takes day or two , and even more>>Wish you luck and joy with this hobby>>Regards>>>Yeah I know there's some good people on the other forum but I didn't know I could ruffle some feathers by asking a question lol. Whats the point of even having a Message Board when your told to "go search for the answers." I thought a message board was a place to ask questions and for those who have "knowledge" to assist the person who posted a question when they have time, not compare his social skills to that of a 14 yr old or tell the poster to go kick himself in the bleep. Thats why I used the term "######". Anyways I'll just buy me the Goflight MCP. I wouldn't want my wonderful MCP to look like "visual chaos"... as someone eloquently pointed out to me. As a socially skilled 14 yr old, that really hurts my self esteem lol.

Just to make sure you know... what you experienced, at that other place, I won't mention any names.... is not the norm to be expected from the majority of our fellow builders.If it wasn't for the helpful folks, particularly here at AVSIM, I would of never started my hobby... AVSIM and my place (mycockpit.org) are not the only forums around the world that cater to builders, some of them are vendors, and other products are openly discussed, I guarantee you, you would not of been treated that way, at any of those other forums.A naive and simple error in your part could of been approached with a simple and courteous gesture. Perhaps: "GEE visualchaosfx, perhaps this is not a place to discuss this topic, perhaps you can present them .... here or there, someplace else."Or something like that.....I even sensed a put down, to those that build they're own panels. Am I missing something here. Didn't the owner of "other place" start his business building his own panels?I don't understand people like that, they'd rather stick a knife in you rather then help you or politely correct you. I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!! I must be dumber then a box of rocks, then.I think it would only be proper, for the owner of THAT place to apologies for his comments and the ones by his supporters, particularly to a newbie and POTENTIAL customer.visualchaosfx, I hope this incident didn't discourage you, to build your flight-sim project.Matt Oliemanwww.a340project.uswww.mycockpit.org (place of friendly builders, like here at AVSIM)

>Just to make sure you know... what you experienced, at that>other place, I won't mention any names.... is not the norm to>be expected from the majority of our fellow builders.>>If it wasn't for the helpful folks, particularly here at>AVSIM, I would of never started my hobby... AVSIM and my>place (mycockpit.org) are not the only forums around the world>that cater to builders, some of them are vendors, and other>products are openly discussed, I guarantee you, you would not>of been treated that way, at any of those other forums.>>A naive and simple error in your part could of been approached>with a simple and courteous gesture. Perhaps: "GEE>visualchaosfx, perhaps this is not a place to discuss this>topic, perhaps you can present them .... here or there,>someplace else.">>Or something like that.....>>I even sensed a put down, to those that build they're own>panels. Am I missing something here. Didn't the owner of>"other place" start his business building his own panels?>>I don't understand people like that, they'd rather stick a>knife in you rather then help you or politely correct you. I>JUST DON'T GET IT!!!! I must be dumber then a box of rocks,>then.>>visualchaosfx, I hope this incident didn't discourage you, to>build your flight-sim project.>>Matt Olieman>www.a340project.us>www.mycockpit.org (place of friendly builders, like here at>AVSIM)>>"GEE visualchaosfx, perhaps this is not a place to discuss this topic, perhaps you can present them .... here or there, someplace else."Thats like the perfect reply that could have been used and then I wouldn't have been "bent" out of shape about it lol.Anyways, I'm not posting anything over there again. Honestly building your own panels is better. It may take more time to build but in the end you can say, "I built that with my own 2 hands" instead of "yeah I got this at such and such a place for an X amount of dollar. Thats why I asked over there and over here. To get people's different perspective on how I could go about doing this. I didn't post over their to ruffle feathers and stuff. That was the last thing on my mind. I'm sure someone over there has made a panel or 2 by themselves at one point in their life.Yeah I'll be joining mycockpit.org here pretty soon. I still wanna try and build my own MCP here soon I hope.

It's nice to see that the folks at "the other site" did the responsible thing and remove that garbage. I would recommend the removal of this thread as well, no sense of lingering on this topic.Let's get back into the business of helping each other :)Matt Oliemanwww.A340Project.uswww.MyCockpit.org

My friend you are about to start on a project that you need to sit down and plan.going out and getting the MCp pro right now may not be what you need now .there are so many things you need to do first.interfacing is wonderful but there is a learning curve with all of them.one thing i know for sure you must have a plan or you will find yourself working on one part of your sim and find out that there is a easier way of getting it done and you have to start over again.research everysite , research , and research is the key, and then doing it. that in it self will take much time to get what you want.Know what you want in your sim, my sim that im building is what i call a multipurpose sim. it is set up for a 172, 737, and a business jet.and there is so much to this hobby now , that you can spend thousands or hundreds, its up to you.the more realistic the more complicated it can be, its all up to you, but make a plan because you are going to pull your hair out if you dont.my sim is a on going project that will be finished in a year or so.So whatever you do ask questions about anything you need to know because someone has done it or knows where to find it.Good Luck my friend..........Robert

Thanks for the great tip Rob :DI was wondering, if I could use a touch screen LCD as the overhead panel?

Yes you can because i use one for my FMC, and radio panel it works great.it was easy to set up and use and it makes it much easier to work with your fmc, i will use the plastic pen or a finger to control the fmc.of course if you use it for the overhead, i would have to get the largest screen you can afford, the one that i have is a screen that overlays your monitor and it is for a 17 inch monitor, i imagine you would want one a little bigger so that you spread out you switches and buttons on the entire screen.But yes touch screens work great........................robert

I was thinking of getting this:http://www.magictouch.com/addon.htmlIt overlays your screen. Plugin via USB, install the drivers and your all set. I was thinking of getting another 17" monitor or a 19". That should be adequate enought for an overhead panel.

I have been in the planning stages for a few years now. Here is my progression through the whole venture of building a 737NG cockpit...1. Interface selection - figure out how many switches and lights I will need to interface with - these numbers will rule out certain products as limitations are in every product - I am going with FlightDeckTechnology's SimBoards as their product will allow for me to interface with every switch and light I need and then a few hundred more.2. Source Selection - figure out what parts I need (Toggle switches are of multiple types - SPST ON/OFF, SPDT ON/ON, SPDT ON/OFF/ON, SPDT MOM/OFF/ON, SPDT MOM/OFF/MOM, SPTT ON/ON/ON and such) and where to get them and how much it would cost to order each individually - not recommended to order all at one time - build slow step by step - get this part build, working, bugs out, move on3. Panel Selection - how to get the panels and how much they will cost. Will I make a CNC router and make the panels myself or will I just buy them from someplace like FlightDeckSolutions or 737cockpit.com and pay for the professional quality of them? If making myself, can I get the panel dimensions I need and do I have the CAD skills to make the 3d outlines for the CNC machine to cut the panels? Will you be needing backlighting so you can see your panels in the dark or are you just saying "well, I'll turn on a light if I need to see something"? This is usually what makes or breaks your bank. If backlighting, then what material are you using for backlighting. Lots of ups and downs here. EL Sheets gives great results - even lighting but more expensive than most other solutions.4. Mockup Construction - I made a mockup of my cockpit out of cardboard. This is for 2 reasons. 1 - I wanted to know how big it was going to be before construction to make sure I had the room to build with costlier materials at full scale like I wanted and 2 - I need something to see how each piece will have to fit together to construct. Making a piece out of cardboard before you make it out of wood, you'll end up having a template you can cut the wood to in the end so hopefully, if you built the cardboard mockup right, you won't waste any time or materials. Places like Wal*Mart produce departments have apple boxes that are heavyweight and they use a LOT of them. Tell them you're moving and ask someone to save you a few each day. They usually will.5. Detail mockup planning - this is for the folks that will be making their panels themselves. A cockpit is many layers. The faceplate is just the visible layer. Most faceplates are on a raised surface because the panel is thick for all the wiring and hardware they hold. So, I take some more cardboard and actually construct the panels to scale out of cardboard. I don't punch any holes for the lights or switches. Instead, I make the 7-segment display holders out of cardboard. I have 5-segment runs for the NAV units and similar pieces that are scale representations for the MCP. I also have circular pieces for the switch holes that I will need. I go panel by panel. For each cutout I will need to make, I place one of these templates. Using clear pushpins worked to hold the pieces in place on the panel. Then, once I have the panel, I placed it on the part it went to. The MCP and the main panel with the CDUs on it were the only ones where each piece went directly where it was supposed to go on the front as the panels there are the visible layer and the hardware support layer combined. Once I was complete with this, I went ahead and started my CNC router hunting.6. CNC Router Planning - Is there a suitable CNC router for me out there or would it be better building the CNC table myself? I quickly found out that if I were to machine each piece myself, it would require a table of 3ft x 2ft rougly for the MIP left/center/right pieces to be made completely. They are the largest pieces of the whole. Finding a CNC router with a table that small that didn't have a bunch of bells and whistles I didn't need was difficult and I gave up. I decided on making my own CNC router table and buying a Kit CNC controller. I figured out what I would use as a cutting device (my dremmel was a common item), what would be easiest for me to make move. I what would move (the table or the cutting device are your choices) and how to make it move.7. 3D design - now to make the 3D CAD files to put into the CNC software (there is free stuff out there, btw). This is where my cardboard panels came in so handy. I make a square the size of the panel, make a tube with the length of the tube going thru the panel, then use something called a Boolean operation that cuts a whole the size and shape of the tube into the box. I do the same for the other cutouts to make it the shape I need. I reference the cardboard panel a lot for dimensions as it is a scale piece of material.8. Paint - what color is your cockpit supposed to be? Where can you find the paint for it? I found an RGB color for boeing grey (the bluish color of the 737NG) and was able to find a site that converted that color into a swatch of paint from local retailers. So, dulux paint it is. Then I found who sold the dulux paint locally to go price the paint. Great. Paint done.THIS IS WHERE I'M AT NOW9a. Painting Panels - Get your plastic Lexan or Lucite from your local supply store and get it painted the coats you want on it.9b. Cutting Panels - Load the 3d cad designs into your CAD software and start cutting. I would organize the panels based on where it's going. Overhead Fore, Overhead Aft, MIP, MCP, Pedestal.10a.Control Construction - Flight Controls can be the hardest part to figure out. Dual linking them can be an interesting venture to get it right. I couldn't get my hands on real yokes or the columns that went with them, so I had to figure this part out from the getgo. After I constructed my cardboard replicas, I got a box and started filling it with ideas of stuff. I finally figured out that a 3" PVC pipe looked the part of the control column. So I got a long tube, cut it to length, put a threaded rod through the bottom of it to pivot on, and placed another column on the other side. I then connected them together with an elbow joint and a long tube that fit snugly in between them. For the control interface, I devised a way to use an elbow joint facing the pilot, plug it with a wooden tube with screws holding it in through the PVC. A ball bearing in the middle of it allowing a rod to free-rotate. A second set of plugs would be down the shaft of the rod limiting slip. The end of the rod would have a 3" fender washer with 2 holes drilled into it. The holes would be for the linking cable that will run through the PVC pipe, held in place by some pulleys that are mounted inside the pipe, then up to a similar assembly on the other side. On the shaft at the top again, we have the yoke placed on the end flushing up to the plug. The wires for the buttons would travel through the yoke and into a ) shaped groove around the bottom of the rod, running down into the pipe and into the wiring section in the middle-bottom of the assembly where the potentiometers would be. The entire assembly is then wired onto a hacked joystick or a simboards module and sent to the computer. Once painted right, it will be awesome. For tensioning, I'm using heavy springs in an X pattern and figuring out the centering mechanism (tells you its centered).10b.MIP Construction - You want to get flying ASAP. You've done all this legwork and have not much to show for it. Make your wooden frame for your MIP and then place your front panels and secure them. Then figure out your display solution for your MIP CDUs. Most often, a 19" widescreen LCD will span across both displays with no gaps in coverage, be it a 737 or 777. Even the screens on the older 757 style can be tricky. So take that 19" widescreen, spin it sideways and change the orientation in your video card configuration to match. Now you'll be all set. Finish off the rest of the items and get your MIP visually done. Now place the hardware and pre-wire it. Get the wires going to a pretty central location and place your circuit board for your hardware interface solution. Hook it up and get it working with your flight simulator.10c.Pedestal construction - I want to get to my radios tuned, so next I need to make the pedestal and get it working. I work first on the rear section as the throttle quadrant will take some long-houred work to complete. First get the frame the panels are going on. Next, build the box that will hold the frame in place at the right height. Then wire up the panels, one by one. Wire it up, get the switches assigned, get it working in flight simulator, then on to the next one. Then look around the internet for a similar design to your throttle quadrant. This is the hardest part of the entire sim to get right. Lots of detail, lots of parts to interact just right. Don't think so? Think of how the thrust reverser works. It is disengaged from moving in the air. How are you going to make that work in your sim? If you're not thinking of that stuff, then your sim won't be as real as the real thing. Make sure you understand how the hardware is supposed to work and have the limitations set in your head before you construct. I have gone through many plans to figure out the interaction of parts.10d.Support frame construction - Before we can build the overhead, we need something to hang it from first. So now, we build our sides, then the rear wall, then the front windows. Once we have that, we need to have a frame that will hold them all together well and ensure they won't come apart with some weight on it. Then build the box that will surround the overhead. Hang the box and mount it in place with many points of attachment to hold the weight. Once you've got your roof done except for paneling, move on to the overhead panel. Get them attached to a frame, one hopefully with a hinge on it to allow you the ability to drop down the overhead panels with some ease for maintenance. In the 737, there is an aft and a fore section. The aft section in mine will fold towards the fore section using the same pivot point. This means that the hinge must be secured heavily so it won't rip out of the wood with some weight on it. EXTRA BRACING for this part.10e.View Construction - This is the other really expensive part of the entire cockpit. How are you going to see the outside world? Are you going to be using a first officer who will need to see outside as well? If no, then any means necessary will work. Collimated displays usually only work for one person. If you want to look out the first officer's window, tough luck, you will see fuzz if anything at all. Projection systems with an arc projection screen are the best way of going about it, but usually require multiple projectors. Recently, there has been a big advance in this area. Someone has come up with a curved mirror display that increases the width only of the projection, and greatly expanding the horizontal field of view from a single projector. This is how I plan on proceeding. Also, with this method, to get a huge display area, you need a bit of distance between the projector and the surface its projecting on. If that surface is a mirror, that will increase the distance to the surface. If a projector is sitting above a screen, pointed towards the cockpit, there would be a mirror just above the pilots' heads. This would double the range from projector to screen. If the distance is 3ft from projector to cockpit, the throw distance would be 6ft total. With a horizontally bent mirror, the width of the image is seriously widened making the world surround the pilots. I have seen one cockpit where someone used plasma/LCD 42" HD TVs mounted to the cockpit window. This is an interesting method, but I would want to see the first officers view out the captain side before deciding.11. Bragging rights - Ok. So, now you have your controls, you have your panels and they work, you have your shell, you have your outside view. All you need is a good stewardess to bring the coffee and a few simmer friends to come over and enjoy your maiden flight with you as YOU NOW HAVE A FULLY FUNCTIONAL SIM!!!!!I'm sure I've left some things out. Most of those are small details you'll worry about later or figure them out in the construction phase of that segment. If you do it in increments, you will have success. If you try and do everything all at once without any prior planning you are doomed to fail and also to have wasted a lot of money that could be spent on things like another projector or the next version of flight simulator (or even the components of a computer to make that next version run). Take it slow and don't rush. Think before you do and think of everything you can. Ask how certain things work before you try to make them. If you're not worried about accuracy and having 100% authentic working replica cockpit, then the small details aren't essential.Last note of advice, be happy with your cockpit as it is and fly it whenever you can at whatever stage its at. Flying with my cardboard replica is actually quite amusing from time to time. I look at it as it's a step closer than what I had before. As soon as the money is there to be spent, it's going towards parts for my cockpit.

Aaron, EXCELLENT information. You've got a plan :) Good for you and thank you for sharing.You are absolutely right "fly it whenever you can at whatever stage its at." That bit of information is the best you can give a new builder. I want to add; take pictures of your progress and keep a log of events. Sometimes you lose sight of where you started, and pictures are fantastic way of looking back where you started and to realize how far you've come.Fantastic to see good interaction among us builders :)Matt Oliemanwww.a340project.uswww.MyCockpit.org

Hello: I just read some of you questions posted on the forum. If your looking to connect switches to control your flight simulator, go to www.hagstromelectronics.com The have a keyboard emulator which allows you to connect 72 switches and it is very easy to connect and wire up. The only soldering you need do is wiring up the unit you are making. the rest is all screw connections. As for your video, instead of spending all that money on monitors, buy a projector and get an 8 foot view. They are rather cheap now and much more realistic. You actually get a feeling of movement when watching out the window and turning or decending. If I can be of any assistance, email me at [email protected] I made all of my electronic units using aluminum for the faceplate, installing switches and printing the cover for the faceplates of the units on my printer using a print perfect program but you can use any printing program. After I create the cover for the faceplate I print it on stickey back paper, attach it to the plate and laminate it using a laminating sheet purchased from staples or office max. Email me and Ill send you some pictures