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Guest LordsSoldier

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Guest LordsSoldier

This post is intended for like minded people with similar beliefs. It is not to meant to debate your beliefs or non beliefs. For those that had kind words and encouragement I thank you. I also want to thank the admin who moved it here. May you all have a blessed day!!!Thank You & God BlessJohn aka Lords Soldier

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I don't think anyone here felt you intended to debate beliefs. But I think it is inflamatory to join forums like this for the purpose of enlisting members to clubs which discriminate on the basis of race, creed, or color. Your post made it very clear that only Christians were welcome. I think because a number of us are Christians, it was probably received with more tolerance than someone who might have invited members to a whites-only club, or an asians-only club. I'm an Italian-American--even if I offered up a V/A for those who believe in the glory of Rome (actually, my family is from Naples :) ), I would allow membership to anyone who simply enjoys the fellowship of our hobby. And of course, I would have the obscure goal of getting people to learn more about Italian Americans and the difference between Tortellini and Tortelloni :)-John

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Guest jonf

I agree wholehearedly. Running a christian based VA is your own business but coming to a public forum to say you are only recruiting people of similar faith is in bad taste. One of the reasons people love this hobby is because it is not bound by religion, race or color. To come here and say you want people to join your VA but they can't if their beliefs aren't the same is yours is really quite disgusting. If you want to run a christian based va then go ahead but out of respect for others, keep your recruiting to other christain based sites and not to sites that are open to people of all denominations. You may mean well but if you're not being received well then you may need to rethink your advertising strategy.

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Guest AFRVA

Being a rarity I guess (white, middle aged and a practicing Buddist) I saw nothing wrong with his post to a degree. He's asking for someone who follows Christ, whose life as we know it was filled with generosity and forgivness. Joining the VA is voluntary, there is no issue for anyone to HAVE to join the VA. We as VA owners, operators and pilots all know that we're all different, that's why you see so many different VA's, even mirror image real world VA's have different ways of operating. While it may have been controversial for him to post his VA's requirement he has succeded where most of us have failed: exposure. Between numerous replies and even more numerous looks without replies he has gotten the exposure his VA needed. I don't know if this was the reason for the original posting, but it doesn't matter really, does it?As a Buddist I have spent more than 30 years of my life in tolerance, and I think that's something a Christian would understand, therefore any VA, even one that is owned and operated by someone with such a strong belief, should be tolerant and not restrict their membership, regardless of a personal predestiny.Peter McKay, PresidentAir Fresno Regional Virtual Airlineshttp://home.earthlink.net/~airfresno/

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I think what I caught differently is the prerequisite that ppl who join the group must be a follower and "believer" in Christ. Many follow Christ and try to be Christ like, but don't believe in Christ's divinity which is what I think "believer" means in the context of his post. I still have to take a hard line on that--I was taught that my role as a Christian is to seek opportunities to teach people the Gospel--not to close ranks and only exist in a circle of fellow believers. You can't teach your faith if you don't welcome those of other faiths into your midst. Your last paragraph says it really well.The sad thing is that discussion of faith and belief is absent in our lives and our hobby. You go out on a limb discussing your belief and I really applaud you for that. In the workplace, can we discuss our beliefs? Hardly. We hear catchwords like "politically correct". I applaud Avsim for not deleting the original thread.I would have applauded LordsSoldier for his original post had he left the door open to witness to everyone. Christians have been getting a bum rap--many have tried to link events (like the Crusades) of a thousand years ago as some type of slam against the true nature of what Christ taught. By closing ranks and drawing the image of war and battle that monikers of "LordsSoldier" create (although I am sure it is not intentional), we will never get the Word out...and a new VA is a great way to do that considering the faiths present in our hobby.

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Guest LordsSoldier

Thank you all for your support. May you all be blessed.:-wave

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Guest BAe146Guy

I've only just read the original post and i can see why people would be angry and offended by the post. The FS community has always accepted everyone regardless of creed, religion or race however now VA's such as this will begin to cause divisions in the community encouraging people to "stay with there own people" so to speak. This is no different to starting a VA and saying "whites only". It is encouraging the seperation of people into religious groups while before we were all equal and each respected each other not caring about each others religion, creed or race .etc. I am a firm Atheist but i'm not going to allow people into my upcoming VA because they don't follow my beliefs this community has always been come one, come all and i feel VA's of this nature are disruptive to the community on a whole.

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Guest LordsSoldier

Well thank you for you post and your opinion Sir. Remember we all have opinions and thank God we can express them here in America. The reason as stated in the original post was that we all had common ground. But I do hope that you wasnt trying to censor my right to free speech, and my right to freedom of religion. Just like your right to post what you did.It would be the same if I was to start a 747 VA only. What common ground would a Cessna pilot have with a 747 pilot?Thank You & God Bless

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Guest BAe146Guy

I'm not denying your right to freespeech or your right to have your religion i was just suggesting you should think through what you are doing and also where you feel it appropriate to post to advertise your VA. Comparing it to a 747 VA only is a very poor metaphor, what your doing is operating a VA that operates along the same grounds as a "whites only" VA would operate and i feel that could be very destructive. I find it disappointing that you feel the need to miss out on sharing your passion for the flightsim community with others by cutting yourself off and saying christians only. It boils down to religious biggotry. Also can we cut the american patriotic crap, thanks.

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Guest LordsSoldier

Our VA has only to do with the indivuals beliefs in our Creator, weather you blue, green or red. So please stop trying to compare it with racism, or equating it with such. If it doesn

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Guest BAe146Guy

If god had blessed America so much why is 40% of the American population living in poverty?

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Guest LordsSoldier

Yeah ok have a great day Sir. You must be listening to the BBC. Otherwise referred to as Bagdad Broacasting Corp. LOL

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Guest BAe146Guy

well what about the 2.2million people in prison or a country that still allows the death penalty in many states, Is this a blessed country? Also if you are so proud of your country would you condone the 100,000s of innocent lives your country has brought an end to?

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Guest LordsSoldier

Well the reason their in prison is because they are upstanding members of their communities. Right? They got or have gotten the death penalty for no reason right? Freedom comes with a price Sir. Many Americans gave their life so you could have yours. Read your history books I think you can find it under World War 2. But that

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Guest BAe146Guy

The USA stayed out WW2 until it couldn't avoid it. The war was won by the sacrifice of 20million russians, Britain did pretty well without the intervention of the USA. Social welfare and caring for your citizens, giving them the medical care, education, social services they deserve comes at a price and that is a reasonably fair system of taxation. Of course some parts of our tax system are becoming more like that of the USA, When we let the rich get away with paying far too little tax and the tax burden on the poor increases disproportionately. At least we don't treat our poor - and yes we do have them though nothing near as many as the USA - As if they were criminals. As you may know the USA has yet to climb into the highest 50 countries in the world in the league table of democracy. When America becomes something resembling a democracy rather than 18th century monarchy (You elect a king every 4 years) then you can start saying that you might be in a position to give the world something more valuable than a big mac.

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>>Sorry but I will not stop with the American patriotism. If it wasn

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Guest LordsSoldier

I must apologize but I just can

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Guest LordsSoldier

:-wave :-wave :-waveSorry I cant waste anymore of my time. God Bless

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I think everyone here needs to back off... We're an International forum. If you don't have anything good to say about our home countries, don't say it. No country on this planet is beyond ill comment, unless someone can tell me one where there are no politicians. One can rally against the ills of the U.S., or Morocco, or Germany, or New Zealand (although New Zealand's only fault is they didn't make the hobbits from LOTR shave their feet out of respect for the sheer beauty of the place :) ).I do have to say to LordsSoldier that we are perceived in a very negative way for somehow suggesting the U.S. is savior of the world. WWII a case in point--we were an isolationist country turning a blind eye to the "Final Solution." There were a number of people concerned, but the electorate turned a blind eye until our own rear ends were on the line. And that is true of many wars--even the attempted appeasment at the dawn of WWII would have saved the rears of those involved, at the expense of the millions a really bad dude was already dispatching from this world. Still, our "Flag waving" doesn't score points with anyone--it is something perceived as uniquely American, and pretty ugly at that since many have died with our flag being the last thing they've seen--whether it be from a F117A or from a cruise missile. I have traveled to Asia, Latin America, and Europe. We do some things better, and they do some things better. God has either blessed all of us, or none of us.... And don't forget the fact that our most "holy" of flag waving days--7-4-1776, celebrates a time when our new found "freedom" was subsidized by the millions of slaves. I don't think God had forsaken them--God doesn't play sides IMHO. Those who believe God does are the cause for 90 pct. of the crisis our world faces at the moment, whether an Imam in Saudi Arabia, or a Televangelist in Atlanta. Now let's get back to Aviation, eh?

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Guest Ken_Salter

To *everyone*:Please take religion and politics out of these forums. They have no place here. These forums are dedicated to flight simulation and flight in general. There are other forums out on the net where you may talk about religion and poliitics all day long if that is your thing.I didn't lock the original thread until the thread (inevitably) degraded. I saw no need to delete the thread also.My religious beliefs, though *vastly* different than those expressed by the originator of this thread, do not keep me from being objective.Basically, my policy is to let the community decide how such messages should be handled.It is not true that you have freedom of speech in these forums. This is a private forum. AVSIM does have Terms and Conditions which you accepted when you registered. (http://forums.avsim.com/toc.html) I have not seen anything by the originator of this thread that violates the T+C (yet).However, this thread has now veered way off topic.This thread is now locked...and any other threads will become immediately locked or deleted if they take the same path.Thank you for your understanding.

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