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Posky dynamics forum - NO discussion

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Hello..As a frequent poster to Usenet sim groups and other web-based forums.. I was shocked to find posts deleted and / or locked on the Opensky Dynamics forum. Posky has a number of technical problems such as engine power and especially landing gear breaking.Posts addressing these issues are deflected by the administrators such that NO tuning discussion can take place. It's as if Posky considers editing the CFG file as `unauthorized FDE editing' or even `hacking'.This is very bad to have such an attitude.I will continue to download, configure, and enjoy the Opensky models, but don't bother posting there unless you want to say: ouuu .. ahhh .. kewl .. excellent .. !!

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Seems to be a developing trend ..... ever been to the DreamFleet Forum?

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If you know there are problems, learn how to fix them yourself... How much did you pay for the POSKY aircraft? I hate to raise this question every time someone complains about their support, but what it comes down to is they provide support on their own time. And reading some of the flak they take, the comments are often rude. I'd get fed up and start deleting posts too, if someone gladly accepted a freebie of mine and said in a public forum, "I like it, but...."As for the Dreamfleet comment, whole different story. A price was paid for their product. I learned the hard way though that a negative post in a public forum they host costs them customers, at their own expense. Better to make private suggestions and keep the results private. You just can't win any empathy, especially at the Dreamfleet forum, by pointing out flaws. The hosts are as human as any of us--and the $20-30 bucks we pay them for their products won't buy them an instant course in customer relations. They are often learning as they go... Not an excuse, but considering the end result, I'm willing to enjoy their product and get on with life...-John

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Hi John,I completely agree with your post, although I also understand Edwinn's point. Constructive criticism should be seen as something of benefit to both the consumer and the developer. Unfortunately, there has been an avalanche of negative posts of the 'your plane sucks' quality especially on the POSKY forums (even threads that started out with polite criticism quickly degenerated into name-calling) , that the Posky members' attitude is entirely understandable.As for commercial developers, e-mail is also in my experience the most reliable way to get problems solved. I had excellent e-mail support from both PSS and SimFlyers in the past. Dreamfleet and Flight One, however, do no longer offer e-mail support, so the only way is to use their forums. I got no reply to posts in both forums outlining a serious problem I have with running the DF 737, so in desperation, I sent an e-mail to Flight One sales. I finally got a response, outlining the procedure to apply for a refund. So this is what I'm going to do and I'll steer clear of DF products in the future. It is time, commersial developers realised that the quality of support is just important for the success of a product, as the quality of the product itself. Dreamfleet have just lost a customer due to the lack of support offered...Cheers,Gosta.

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I believe this subject needs to be addressed in two separate situations: freeware and payware.Freeware: While I agree that constructive criticism is a desirable aspect of the development of anything, I also can understand that what one person sees as constructive is not necessarily interpreted as such by another (particularly when text is the only form of communication available, as is the case in forums). Because freeware developers do what they do without compensation from the users of their creations, they also retain the right to accept or disregard any criticism of their creations. It is not hard to get a feeling for how particular groups feel about criticism. Don't like their position? Tough luck. No need to get all sarcastic and contemptuous about it in another forum.Payware: These developers need to provide the necessary support for their customer base. Yet here the consumers definitely have more of an impact. If the support is too poor you can request refunds, boycott product lines/companies, etc. You can even spread via "word of mouth" your personal experiences with regard to the lack of support, etc (although I believe this should be done truthfully and without exaggeration). Still, there's always the everlasting rule of thumb, "buyer beware". Just because you gave some money for it, does not necessarily mean you are going to get what you think you paid for, more often it means you get what the developer thinks you paid for and notthing more.Sorry for ranting. Just my opinions. Take them or leave them.:-wave

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There is of course also a huge difference in the way you word your posts.Say you find a flaw in the climb performance.Some people would say something like "the climb performance isn't accurate. It does this (...) which IMO should be more like that (...)".Those persons would probably be listened to and their suggestions taking into consideration for an update.Other will say something like "your product is crap, the climb performance is completely wrong. I demand my money back and will by from Ariane/Peter Tishma in the future" (yes, I've heard that right on these forums (which aren't even the support forums for the product at hand).Those persons will most likely be completely ignored or at the least not be taken seriously.

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Ok.. just so you know.. my posts on the `Project Brokensky' Flight Dynamics forum consisted of replying to another post about "how to install the new FDE files". In addition, I mentioned a number of CFG entries that should be changed such as plane and wing geometry. Posky personnel deleted this stating that it was "unauthorized editing of the FDE'. Since when is editing the CFG file `FDE hacking' or a violation of FDE copyright?? This post was gutted and replaced with a scathing warning message.I stated that ALL models require CFG editing..!!The second deletion case was of a comprehensive review on the CRJ-200 including engine power and cruise pitch. This post was completely `wiped' from the dynamics forum. The main question was.. " why is the thrust scalar set at 1.1625 and when I set it to 1.000 the jet can barely make 240 kts at FL310..!!p.s. will make these deleted posts available here soon...Cheers..!!

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Gosta, Personally, I'm sorry to hear about anyone that has been unhappy with the support they have received at DF, especially if it means that somebody intends to boycot future releases!In fact, even though I had no input into the 737 whatsoever, I just spent the last 15 minutes trying to find your requests for help that resulted in your statement in an effort to help resolve an outstanding issues.Sadly, I could only find 2 posts by you on the Dreamfleet forum and only one of those was a request for help. Perhaps you could be kind enough to give me the links to the others?Thanks.http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg

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>Gosta, >>Personally, I'm sorry to hear about anyone that has been >unhappy with the support they have received at DF, >especially if it means that somebody intends to boycot >future releases! >>In fact, even though I had no input into the 737 whatsoever, >I just spent the last 15 minutes trying to find your >requests for help that resulted in your statement in an >effort to help resolve an outstanding issues. >>Sadly, I could only find 2 posts by you on the Dreamfleet >forum and only one of those was a request for help. Perhaps >you could be kind enough to give me the links to the others? >>Thanks. >Paul..I regret that Dreamfleet somehow got `dragged' into this thread. I have no issues with Dreamfleet and am largely unfamiliar with their work. The objective of most of the content that I create involves flight testing and flight characteristics. You will find many graphics, animations, illustrations, and charts included in these posts.Although I'm not a pilot, I have somewhat of a `textbook' or mathematical understanding of flight. Some are defensive when an issue is brought into the light. On the other hand, I receive many emails with encouragement to "keep posting Sim topics". You may find statements that are made which in actual experience are incorrect, and I welcome anyone to correct these posts.Cheers and keep up the good work..!!Gregory Abbey - Edwinnengineering

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I hope you do post that... No matter what, no one can tell us what we can and can't do to text files on our own systems. You are quite right about the FDE editing....there's many dynamics that may very from system to system. For example, I have a very small (and sensitive) joystick. I usually tone down elevator and roll response in the FDE's to compensate, as MS's joystick settings alone only partially compensate.So as far as I'm concerned, if that's the response you got, I stand corrected. What you do on your own system, and any suggested changes you make, is your right. If you were redistributing the FDE, that's another story. Can't wait to see your post, and the response.As far as the review is concerned, I'd have to read it to perceive whether it might have been taken in the wrong light.

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Project Brokensky -- What does it accomplish to say this? Is this your idea of constructive criticism?I saw your more recent posts in this forum "flight testing" the POSKY CRJ-200. If you used the same subject heading in POSKY's forum, I'm not surprised that it was removed. I have no problem with someone submitting a "flight test" (aka review) to a site like Avsim.com or Flightsim.com, but it is rather presumptuous for you to post something like that to POSKY's own forum. I can see how they may not have seen it as constructive criticism about their creation. Probably could have just saved yourself a lot of problems by emailing Warren privately to suggest changes and/or request permission to post your "improvements" to the POSKY FDE forum.:-wave

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Hi Paul,here are the links to my posts. I got a few responses from other users (note: not developers) on the Flight One forum, but nothing that solved by problem. http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/7396.htmlFlight One ForumThere shouldn't really be a need for repeat posts, I assume that all posts are read by the developers, as it is a support forum replacing e-mail support. And a single e-mail sent to the support address at other developers was sufficient to generate a positive response. Cheers,Gosta.EDIT: edited second link in HTML to get rid of horizontal scrollbar.

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Well, even if this doesn't have anything to do with the POSKY subject, I though I'd post my feelings about this whole "constructive criticism" thing.Freeware seems to be covered by an untochable veil that says "you can't complain because you got it for free". Well, this isn't all true. If we couldn't complain about something that's been given for free, we wouldn't be allowed to comment a concert, or an art gallery, or anything, as we can see it for free. However, people that critize musci and/or art do exist, and let's face it, we are all free to express our opinion and we do. Some of us even don't like Christina Aguilera! There will always be those kinds of people. And I undertsand POSKY for being upset sometimes, it's really hard to hear (read) someone that isn't happy with your work, your pride gets hurt, even if you won't admit it.But, if we all shut up, and stop saying what we think just becasue we freely downloaded the prodcut, then there wouldn't be any possibility of improvement.I agree that some people have to stop complaining about everything too, but my point is, freeware is NOT untouchable. I think we should stop using that as an excuse.My two cents only.

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Constructive criticismI'd like to express my apologies for the `steam' that was perhaps let-off in this last series, but it was extremely aggrevating (the 'P' word) to spend 30-45 mins creating virtual web pages with test results and then a few hours later, find them gone, especially while trying to get some issues resolved.This forum doesn't allow the user to go back and edit after 60-mins so I cannot now `soften' the remarks made. Some boards allow unlimited editing and even deletion of you own posts, and I have deleted many (of my own) which were either inaccurate or offensive.One thing is for sure, I'm not one to post a trite `aww kewl' message!! { smile } [/p]p.s. we haven't even gotten to the landing gear issues..Gregory Abbey - Edwinnengineering

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