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Guest jase439

FMC SIDs / STARs

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hi alli find the PSS 747 plane and FMC a wonderful add on for realism in FS, i'm sure the other commercial addons with FMC are just has good,however i have a question with programming the SIDS and STARs,for example i am using the 747 PSS and i program a flight plan from KLAX to KOAK, i key in the dep runway and then i am prompted to do insert a SID,how does one know what SID to use to get to the next waypoint in the route if you have never flown to from that airport, similarly i keyed in 29 arrival at KOAK and there was a list of STARs, but i was clueless in choosing the correct one,how does one chose the right SID/STARs?thx!:-wave

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In reality sids are assigned by the dep service together with the start up clearance.Stars are requested by the pilots, but also assigned by the controller according to runway in use.So if you fly alone or with fs atc, just by fsnav, or some avio-charts and do your homework before the flight ;)Hope to be of help.RegardsClaudio

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That's partially right - the STAR is also going to be assigned by dispatch based on what direction a plane is coming into the airport from - there are a few US airports where the STAR actually does change depending on Runway in use, but usually that won't change your STAR at all...Here's a basic overview of how it works:SIDs (DPs) and STARs are there to organize heavy traffic flow in and out of congested airspace and relieve workload and stress from controllers by creating a standard flight path that aircraft will take without being issued vectors all the time etc... It's a standard routing that usually has multiple "transitions" which do the following:1. For a DP - get you onto the airway system or to a nearby VOR or fix that can in turn get you to an airway.2. For a STAR - get you established on the arrival.Think of transitions as on or off ramps for the airways.Most DP's and STARS have multiple transitions that can get you to just about any airway you need or onto the arrival from the direction you're coming from:Let's take a look at an easy to plan route - KPHX-KDEN.We're gonna be heading to the northeast to get to Denver from Phoenix, so if you look at the charts for the DP's out of KPHX, you see that the SILOW1 heads in that direction. Now look at the STAR charts for KDEN - the LARKS3 is the one that comes up from the southwest - now take a look at the transitions - both procedures have FMN (Farmington VOR) listed - the DP and the STAR link up perfectly with no airway(s) in between. The route looks like this written out: KPHX.SILOW1.FMN.LARKS3.KDENLet's look at a slightly more complex route - KPHX-KLAXWe're departing more or less to the west, so we see that the BKX1 is the DP for that direction - looking at the arrival charts for LAX - the PDZ4 is close to where we want - however, the transitions don't link up exactly this time, so we have to use an airway between the two proceedures - J4 runs between PKE (Parker VOR) and TNP (Twenty-nine Palms VOR), which transisitions on the DP and STAR respectively. So the route ends up being - KPHX.BKX1.PKE.J4.TNP.PDZ4.KLAXSome times the transition doesn't get you right to an airway or right onto a STAR in which case you can go DIRECT between the transition and another point that will get you on the airway you want...A good example is the real world route from KTUS-KDEN. Tucson has only one DP - the TUS6. We're traveling to the northeast again, and the SSO (San Simon VOR) transition is the closest one. Looking at the LARKS3 arrival again into Denver we can see that the ALS (Alamosa VOR) transition is closer this time so the route ends up looking like this:KTUS.TUS6.SSO..ALS.LARKS3.KDEN - notice the two dots between SSO and ALS which indicates they are not linked to eachother and that it's a direct course between them.Two other types I can think of are Vector DP's and airports that don't have DP's or STARs - A good example of a vector DP is the ORD1 at Chicago O'Hare - this is nothing more that radar vectors to a VOR or Fix in the area that will get you on the airway you need. ATC is free to get you there however is best.When an airport is lacking DP's, STAR's or both, you simply file the last point on your airway that is close to the airport and then make it direct to the airprot from there... A good example is the reverse of the above flight - KDEN-KTUS... The PIKES2 DP will get you to ALS, but the only STAR into TUS is the DINGO5 which is for westerly and northwesterly arrivals, so the route ends up being:KDEN.PIKES2.ALS..SSO..KTUSHope that clears it up a bit - best thing to do woul be to join VATSIM and try this online with real ATC - FS ATC doesn't do this stuff at all...

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>Hope that clears it up a bit - best thing to do woul be to >join VATSIM and try this online with real ATC - FS ATC >doesn't do this stuff at all... Nice explication :)And about vatsim/ivao: i can't really understand why people do love fs atc that much.It's cold, unefficient, unrealistic... and finally you don't feel like the real thing.The real person connected through the network really makes the difference imho: flying with other real persons flying (with all their problems) their aircraft, in an airspace controlled by another real person who tries his best (there are not that many real controllers ;)) and often succeeds in managing to speed up a bit of "real" traffic...Well you can't even imagine how it is.Nothing comparable to a simulated thing...Like real flying is nothing comparable to be seated at your desk looking at a fancy monitor, but still... a monitor.Best regardsClaudio

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thx guys but i am a member with VATSIM i have been a member since the days of SATCO actually, however i am in Australia and usually when i arrive home from work it is approx 2am on the West coast of America and 5am on the East Coast so not much ATC up at that hr of the nightcheersClayton

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