Graphics problem and ? about new nvidia drivers

[Guest Ricksstix]

I recently installed some more memory in my computer and it created a graphics problem in fs9.I have been unable to get my original graphics card to perform as well as it used to since this happened,so I purchased a new one and I am having better graphics now but a new problem has surfaced.(this is a long story so I'll have to get to the new problem,please bear with me.) I should give you my system specs and a little history before I go on.My specs are as follows;Pentium 4cpu 2.66ghz2.67ghz, 1gig of ram120 gig hard drive (undre my computer it says total size 114gb,25.0gb free space)Original graphics card - ATI 9700 all in wonderNew Graphics card - Nvidia GeForce 6600GT This issue started when I decided to add some more memory to my system in an attempt to boost performance , I went from 512mb to 1gig mb.After I had put in the 512 mb stick I noticed faster load times so I tryed to add even more memory. The second stick I purchased turned out to be incompatible(wrong speed)and that is when my problems began.After I had installed the second stick I started fs9 and I noticed that the aircraft on the start screen was blurry and had a bad case of the jaggies.Once I had started a flight I saw immediately that things were worse than I had at first suspected.The aircraft I was flying looked ok in the 2D panel view and 3D cockpit but when I switched to an outside view it looked terrible!The scenery was looking pretty bad as well,the taxi lines and buildings had many jagged edges. Just when I thought things couldn't get any worse I took off from Key West and I saw that the only clear ground textures were the ones directly under my plane!It was like flying without my glasses on. I tryed everything I could think of to solve the problem and had no luck at all.This is what I've tryed so far.I experimented with the hardware settings on my original graphics card and with the settings in fs9.I uninstalled my drivers and downloaded and installed new drivers for my original graphics card.I reinstalled fs9 and had the same issues.I purchased and installed an Nvidia 5500 graphics card and it really wasn't much better than what I had with the ati card as it had similar specs.I purchased and installed an Nvidia GeForce 6600GT and I noticed a big improvement.(not exactly what I was hoping for but way better than what I had.) Which brings up my new problem, since I installed the 6600 I've had a few times when my screen has just gone blank for no apparent reason and I had to reboot my computer to get going again.I thought maybe it was a driver issue so I went to Nvidias website to see if there were any new drivers and I downloaded the latest one(77.72).When I installed the new drivers I was unable to start fs9 at all!I opened the task manager which said fs9 was running but all I had was a black screen.The task manager also showed cpu usage at 100%. I uninstalled the new drivers and went back to the set that came with the new card for now, but I read on another thread that another user was raving about how good things look in fs9 with the new drivers so I'm hoping to find a way to get them working. Now I have some questions,What went wrong when I installed the second(incompatible)memory stick?Is there a way to fix those problems and go back to using my original graphics card?If not, does anyone have any idea what is causing my system to crash now?Why do the latest Nvidia drivers not work on my system?Please help if you can as I am slowly losing my sanity,Thanks,rick.

[Guest Edwin]

Hi Rick,Unfortunately, I can't directly answer some of your questions because, frankly, I don't know. There are many variables at play here so it's hard to say exactly what's wrong. But I do have a few suggestions.First, it's doubtful you would need more than 1GB of RAM. Games (and I'm including FS9 here) rarely need more than 1GB of RAM. I, for one, went from 1GB to 1.5GB and noticed no tangible difference whatsoever. So you may want to consider just taking out your second stick of RAM (although I'm a bit confused. You seem to have said you added your first stick to go from 512MB to 1GB but then, where is the initial 512MB? Or was it the second stick that brought your total RAM from 512MB to 1GB?)Secondly, IMHO, it's generally good practice to reformat your hard drive and reinstall Windows every time you add/change hardware. Granted, this isn't necessary and in most cases, things still do work. But stray remnants of drivers can often hurt performance and in your case, I'm quite sure your instability is due to an incomplete installation/removal of an old driver.Third, what operating system are you using? I get the feeling you're not on Windows XP. If I'm right, you might want to consider going to XP. Even if not, you might want to try reinstalling DirectX (you should be able to find it on the Microsoft Web site). While you're at it, make sure you have all the appropriate Windows patches via Windows Update.Hope this helps and good luck!Edwin

[Guest Ricksstix]

Hi Edwin, I guess I neglected to mention some things.I am running windows XP with all of the updates I'm aware of.I think the last one was service pack 2. My computer is going on three years old and it originally came with 512mb of ram. I added a second stick of pc2700 on the recommendation of the great guys at Freeflow because I was having problems with texture load times and a bad case of the blurries with their awesome Florida scenery.I got the second stick at a great price and since I had seen a noticable improvement I figured it wouldn't hurt to add a third stick.Problem was when I went to buy the third stick the price had gone up from $32 to $99, an employee of the store then gave me some bad advice and I was dumb enough to take it. He sold me a 512mb pc3300 stick that was on sale and swore it was backwards compatible and would work on my computer.After I installed it I tryed and failed to start fs9 three times,and on the third attempt my computer went into some kind of three part file check. It mentioned something about an orphaned file (sorry I can't read that fast)I uninstalled the third stick and rebooted,and when windows came back up it said windows had recovered from a serious fault.That is when I fired up fs9 and discovered I had a big problem with my graphics. I'm a total add on junkie so reformatting my hard drive and reinstalling the dozens of scenery and planes is one of my worst nightmares.The last time I had to do a complete reinstall it took me two weeks to back everything up and several more weeks to get everything together again.I'm hoping I don't have to do that again until I buy my next computer.

[Guest Ricksstix]

I forgot to thank you for answering Edwin so, Thanks!

[Guest baksteen33]

Hi Rick, RAM is a pretty complicated matter sometimes and most mainboards/chipsets have limitations. Nowadays, even certain CPUs have limitaions (i.e. AMD's 64-er with the built-in memory controller). I could imagine your RAM problem is related to the mainboard's chipset. For example, i845 chipsets allow plugging 2 double sided modules max. PC2700 usually is double-sided as of 256MB. Your display adapter has little to do with this (once the computer has booted) and the crashes you're seeing are probably related to what Edwin mentioned. How many MBs of memory does your 6600GT have? If it's 128MB, it's likely your 9700 is still the best display adapter you have for MSFS (9700pro: 256-bit, 8 pixel pipelines, 4 vertex pipelines vs. 128-bit, 8 pixel- and 3 vertex pipelines for the 6600GT). http://www.rojakpot.com/default.aspx?locat...1=88&var2=1If you'ld like to know more about plugging RAM, please indicate the exact type and maker of your mainboard. Hope this adds to thoughts, good luck and kind regards Jaap

[Guest Ricksstix]

Hi Jaap, My mainboard is a Shuttle AS45,the manual says it can handle up to 3gigs of memory and has three 184 pin modules.I don't know what brand memory came with my computer originally but it had one stick of 512mb.The first stick I installed was Kingston pc2700 512mb CL2.5 184 pin DIMM (KVR333/512R).I'm a little confused on one thing though, in the mainboard manual it says that the pc2700 only support 4 Bank(whatever that means) and it has a chart like this-Memory DIMM1 DIMM2 DIMM3 TOTALPC2700 single side, single side, single side, 3 bank double side, single side, single side, 4 bank double side, double side, empty , 4 bank The memory stick that came with my computer is in the middle slot and the one I put in is in the first slot (I hope this helps you because it's greek to me.)How do I know if the one I put in is single side or double side? My GeForce 6600GT's box says GDDR3 128MB AGP8X on the side, is that the same specs as what you mentioned?I only have a few more days before the return period runs out on the 6600 card, if you were me would you return it and reinstall the 9700? Edwin mentioned that it's a good idea to reformat your hard drive when you install new hardware,I am under the impression that doing so will erase everything on my computer and that I would need to reinstall every program I have, is this correct? If that is the only way to solve my problem then I'll do that but to be honest I have no idea how to reformat the hard drive. Speaking of Hard drives,mine appears to be almost completely full,could that be part of the problem? Thanks for trying to help,Rick

[Guest Edwin]

Rick,On memory: your RAM is single-sided if it has chips on only one side on of the stick and double-sided if it has chips on both sides of the stick.Given what you mentioned in your previous post, once again, I would urge you to return (or sell) your third stick of 512MB. It was after adding that third stick that you started encountering issues and I'm quite sure the additional 512MB (from 1GB to 1.5GB) will yield negligible performance improvement.On reformatting: yes, it will erase everything. In fact, that's the point. I think you should start from a clean slate. It's really not as difficult as it may sound although it's a rather laborious process (especially with backing up everything before the reformat and then loading everything back). I strongly urge you to consider it. Having said that, it's no guarantee that it will solve all your problems.On hard drives: what's "almost completely full"? Theoretically, it shouldn't be a problem but if your hard drive is really so full that Windows doesn't have enough space to enlarge its swap file then instability *could* result. In other words, it's doubtful that your lack of hard drive space is what's causing the problem but it's never good practice to keep your hard drive >95% full.Jaap's been giving you good advice. I'm sorry I've been pretty vague in making suggestions but it's just hard to diagnose your problem. The only concrete advice I'd have is to reformat (but again, no guarantees).Edwin

[Guest baksteen33]

Hi Rick and Edwin, re-installing is easy if you know how to do so. Case your system is good otherwise, well tuned and it takes hours to re-install, perhaps try a thorough removal of the GPU drivers first? Hence, look for a tool like Driver Cleaner and follow the instructions to the letter. Case your sole passion is FS and not Doom3 or other software which uses newer pixels shader versions, your 9700pro is more than sufficient and will probably outperform the 128MB 6600GT. Unfortunately, whether RAM is double- or single-sided is not identifyable just from looking at them. A general rule of thumb is; double-sided is 256MB PC2700 and larger or 512MB PC3200 and larger. Hence, 256MB PC3200 modules are usually single-sided and many folks with homebuilt 2x256MB PC3200 systems aren't aware they're only using half of their FSB's potential... Not that it makes a huge difference, but when these folks upgrade to 4x256MB PC3200 they often believe it's the amount of RAM which boosted their performance while in truth and reality it's the proper RAM-banking and that they're -finally!- taking advantage of their FSB's full potential... As your chart indicates, your board 'only' supports 2 double-sided modules. So Edwin is totally right about returning 1 of the 3 sticks. Personally, I'ld keep the ones which are identical. Generally put, it's not a good idea to mix modules with different SPD-presets and/or timings (i.e. CL2.5 with CL3, etc, etc). Besides, the max 3GB RAM your manual states is highly theoretical because you'll probably not find 3 single-sided 1GB sticks. Get the catch? A good system stability test is memtest86+ which you can obtain from memtest.org. If you get errors with this tool, enter the bios and change the RAM-timings manually. Experiment. Memetest is specially a gem regarding long term stability. Therefore, let it run for as many passes as your patience can handle. Sometimes, the errors only appear after 5-6 passes. My general advise regarding RAM, is, never buy single sticks. Always get pairs even if you don't need them at that specific moment. Hope this adds to thoughts, good luck and kind regards Jaap

[Guest Ricksstix]

Hi guys, I think I'm going to attempt to reformat my hard drive and start from scratch,and I think I'll go back to my original graphics card(9700pro).I'm still curious where to find Driver Cleaner,I found memtest but I was unsure which one to download and run.I've never tryed to reformat a hard drive before so any tips you can offer would be greatly appreciated,and if you don't hear from me for a while it's because I'll be spending a lot of time backing up my stuff.I'll let you know how it went when I'm finished.Once again, thanks for trying to help me out!

[Guest Edwin]

Hi,It's hard to give specifics on the reformatting process because it can differ a bit according to the specs of your machine and software that you use. But here's a general idea:1) Backup everything you need i.e. documents, music files, photos, e-mails, Internet bookmarks, FS9 sceneries & AFCAD files etc. (I've found this to actually be the most tedious process.) You can either put all your files onto another computer or burn them onto CDs.2) While you're doing this, you may also want to download any drivers and/or utility software you think you'll need and place them with your stored files as well. This is optional as you can do this AFTER you've formatted. Examples of things you'll need:- Motherboard, network and IDE drivers (either from your motherboard, e.g. Shuttle, or chipset, e.g. Intel or NVIDIA, manufacturer)- Video card drivers from ATI or NVIDIA- Sound card drivers from e.g. Creative Labs- Other peripheral drivers, such as for your mouse, keyboard, webcam, scanner, digital camera, joystick, printer etc.- Anti-spyware utilities e.g. Spybot S&D or Ad-Aware SE- Firewall utilities e.g. ZoneAlarm Pro- Multimedia apps e.g. Winamp, RealOne, Windows Media Player- Web browser e.g. Mozilla Firefox- E-mail software e.g. Mozilla Thunderbird- Messenger software e.g. ICQ, AIM, MSN, Skype, Trillian3) Now you're ready to reformat. Put your Windows XP CD into your DVD/CD-ROM drive. Go into the BIOS and set your motherboard to boot from the CD. Follow the on-screen prompts in Windows setup. Use NTFS when reformatting.4) On the first reboot into your "new" Windows desktop, set the BIOS back to booting from your hard drive. My first order of business is usually to go to Windows Update. Update everything and reboot. (Note: if you can't access the network because your network drivers aren't installed yet, then install the network drivers first.)5) Next, I try to get to a "100% working" machine, which to me means no question marks in Device Manager (right-click on My Computer -> Properties, second tab). That usually means installing all the drivers ONE-BY-ONE. For safety's sake, I reboot whenever I'm asked. Yes, that's a lot of reboots and you could probably install everything and then just reboot once, but I don't like to take that chance.6) Once there are no more question marks in Device Manager, I install my utilities e.g. antivirus, firewall, Web browser etc. With some of these utilities, you may need to update via the in-program update utilities (e.g. LiveUpdate for Symantec apps). Again, reboot whenever necessary.7) Install office software, messengers and multimedia apps. Reboot whenever necessary. You may also now want to load all of your personal files (i.e. those you backed up in the first step) back into your hard drive.8) Install FS9 and then run the program once first. This ensures that the necessary index files are created etc. Then install the FS9.1 update, all your aircraft, sceneries etc.9) Defrag your hard drive!It's a long and laborious process but it's not actually as difficult as it sounds. Just be patient and try to think ahead, anticipate what you'll need before you reformat.Good luck!Edwin

[Qantas81]

Hi,I used to use these drivers with my Geforce 4800Ti and I found them to be the best "66.81_win2kxp_international"I don't understand why everyone seems to be having display issues all of a sudden ?Hope this helps,Regards,Ralf..

[Guest Ricksstix]

Hi guys, I just wanted to let you know that I somehow managed to fix the problem without having to reformat my hard drive. I returned the 6600 and reinstalled the 9700,updated the drivers(there was a slightly newer version on ATI's site than the last one I tryed),I also moved the memory I had installed over to the third slot,and I installed netframework before I put in the new drivers and now things look great again! I'm not sure which of these things did the trick or if it was all of the above but who cares? Now I can spend my time flying instead of messing around with my computer again.My only remaining issue is that my ground textures seem to load a little slow,which is why I added memory in the first place,so if anyone has any tips on how to increase load time performance I'd be happy to hear them.For now I'm going to count my blessings and get in some flight time before I go to Oshkosh. Thanks to all of you for your help! Rick.