Question on Digital Flat Panel Displays

[Guest davaz]

I am thinking about a new Dell System and note that they offer a 24" digital flat panel display. The native display mode is 1920x1200 and it is quoted to have a 12 ms response time.My question is on running FS2004 at 1920x1200 (WSXGA)- will this work? I have a friend who has a new Dell with a 20" digital flat plan display running at 1600x1200 and it looks great. I just do not know about the 1920x1200.Can anybody help?RegardsDave

[Bluescaster 21]

Hi Dave, I can't say about the specific resolution but when re-newing my system (about 18months ago) I carefully researched the issue of a new monitor. I can't tell you ALL the advice etc. received whilst researching the matter as much of it I've forgotten now; however, it was clear (at least at that time) that a CRT monitor was a much better bet from the performance stand point. The flat screens just could not perform as well for flight sim purposes by any degree.It was also clear that the prices of flat screen monitors were far higher than for the CRT type. I do remember looking at some Flatscreens that came close to the CRT in price - but when you then looked at their performance spec. they were very inferior. As I recall with flatscreen monitors - frame rate and performance were what killed it for me. I ended up buying a CRT - Flatron ez T910BU made by LG - it has a "flat screen" therefore having the advantages of no screen distortion but is a CRT device.Hope this gives food for thought.Regards Blue.

[Guest Edwin]

Hi Dave,I remember reading somewhere (probably on the PMDG support forums) that FS9 works ok with the widescreen resolution. I think the author wrote something like the scenery is shown in 1600x1200 resolution but the panel is in 1920x1200 so the scenery looks a bit stretched? I'm not sure but if I were you, I would *not* get a widescreen LCD. The resolution is not supported in most games and I'm skeptical about seeing a stretched image. Not having seen one in real life though, I can't be sure.I have a 20" LCD screen (ViewSonic VP201b), which I'm very satisfied with. Sure, it could be even bigger, but the 1600x1200 is natively supported by nearly all games on the market right now and it's big enough. I have a very old (7 years) 17" CRT running 1024x768 on the side, which I use to display part of the panel when playing FS9. So for example, using the PMDG 747-400, I'd move the Chronometer, the FMC and the EICAS there so I can see those and the frontal view at the same time. If you have the budget to go for a 24" widescreen LCD, perhaps you could consider getting two 20" non-widescreen LCDs instead? (If going Dell, that would be two 2001FPs.)As for Blue's statement, the LCD vs. CRT debate is very subjective although I think it's fair to say that over the past 18 months, the pro-CRT camp has grown smaller and smaller due to advances in LCD technology. As far as I can see, the main pro-CRT arguments were price and ghosting. With Dell's 20" 2001FP running for ~US$550 (lower in the US, I think; I just converted the price in HK into US$), the premium over CRT is bearable. As for ghosting, the response times nowadays are so low that ghosting is imperceptible in most cases (at least to my eyes) but CRT has no ghosting at all so to the most discerning, they may still prefer CRT.One thing though I want to clear up, I cannot see how using a CRT vs. an LCD would affect frame rates. AFAIK, this should not happen. Are you referring to refresh rates? If so, the refresh rates are not directly comparable since the technologies are so different. I can easily spot a CRT at 60Hz but I have my LCD at 60Hz and it's fine (in fact, it's encouraged not to run the LCD at higher refresh rates).Hope this helps.Edwin

[Guest]

Btw...please don't forget the Samsung 204T 20.1"(1600x1200) LCD...available in either Silver or Black for around $549.00...better build and better looking then the cheap Dell 2001FP...>I remember reading somewhere (probably on the PMDG support>forums) that FS9 works ok with the widescreen resolution. I>think the author wrote something like the scenery is shown in>1600x1200 resolution but the panel is in 1920x1200 so the>scenery looks a bit stretched? I'm not sure but if I were>you, I would *not* get a widescreen LCD. The resolution is>not supported in most games and I'm skeptical about seeing a>stretched image. Not having seen one in real life though, I>can't be sure.>>I have a 20" LCD screen (ViewSonic VP201b), which I'm very>satisfied with. Sure, it could be even bigger, but the>1600x1200 is natively supported by nearly all games on the>market right now and it's big enough. I have a very old (7>years) 17" CRT running 1024x768 on the side, which I use to>display part of the panel when playing FS9. So for example,>using the PMDG 747-400, I'd move the Chronometer, the FMC and>the EICAS there so I can see those and the frontal view at the>same time. If you have the budget to go for a 24" widescreen>LCD, perhaps you could consider getting two 20" non-widescreen>LCDs instead? (If going Dell, that would be two 2001FPs.)>>As for Blue's statement, the LCD vs. CRT debate is very>subjective although I think it's fair to say that over the>past 18 months, the pro-CRT camp has grown smaller and smaller>due to advances in LCD technology. As far as I can see, the>main pro-CRT arguments were price and ghosting. With Dell's>20" 2001FP running for ~US$550 (lower in the US, I think; I>just converted the price in HK into US$), the premium over CRT>is bearable. As for ghosting, the response times nowadays are>so low that ghosting is imperceptible in most cases (at least>to my eyes) but CRT has no ghosting at all so to the most>discerning, they may still prefer CRT.>>One thing though I want to clear up, I cannot see how using a>CRT vs. an LCD would affect frame rates. AFAIK, this should>not happen. Are you referring to refresh rates? If so, the>refresh rates are not directly comparable since the>technologies are so different. I can easily spot a CRT at>60Hz but I have my LCD at 60Hz and it's fine (in fact, it's>encouraged not to run the LCD at higher refresh rates).Darryl

[Bluescaster 21]

Hi Dave/ Edwin & all, Just coming back re. the CRT/LCD and frame rates - as said this is 18 months ago and I've forgotten a fair bit having made my decision. However, I think the arguement went something along the lines that with LCD you are (were back then??? :-) ) stuck with the "native" or designed resolution - some of which was not compatible with running FS9 effectively and changing it (the LCD monitor) from it's "native" resolution impacted the frame rates quite a lot. Also, if not running at it's "native" res. the quality of the LCD image was adversly effected. I am aware that the higher the resolution, the greater it effects the frame rate. Edwin, I'm sure you know more about the technical side of this but this info. may help with decision making for those updating monitors.Regards, Blue

[Guest davaz]

Thanks for all the good comments ... some things to think about in contemplating this purchase.RegardsDave

[Guest aihuntersandgatherer]

Hi Dave,I have actually purchased the Dell 2405FPW a few weeks back and I am happy to share my experiences to help your decision.First of all: I was previously using a Dell/Sony (Trinitron) 21" CRT. A nice screen with a totally flat display and offering high resolutions and refresh rates.Going from the CRT to the LCD was a night and day difference (even my wife noticed, and she usually doesn't care much for those tings). The color vibrancy and picture sharpness is so much better on this LCD compared to my old (relatively high end) CRT. One of the nice things about any LCD is that the image is naturally flicker free and that makes a huge difference for your eyes, and this is coming from someone who used a refresh rate of 100hz on a CRT previously. I spend a lot of time staring on computer screens (I'm in I.T.) and I really appreciate any less strain on my eyes.Concerning the 'widescreen' part: the 16:10 aspect ratio just seems a lot more natural to me. The added 'real estate' makes a significant difference especially when working with a number of applications at the same time and wanting to see windows displayed simultaneously. A great improvement for me.Regarding FS: I did a air bit of research here in the forum prior to my order and I can tell you that a lot of the things you will read here are plain wrong. From what I gathered most wrong information comes from people who don't have a widescreen monitor and actually never seen FS used on one, so I'd take their advise with a grain of salt. You will also find that the handfull of users that actually use this screen are raving about it.Here are my experiences:First of all: You'll need a high end video card to use a resolution of 1920 to 1200. I am using a NVIDIA 7800GT that I got relatively cheap (cheaper then a X800XT here in Australia). No one forces you to use that resolution though. If you chose to run a lower resolution however you will notice that LCD's don't scale resolutions downward as well as CRT's do. What that means is that the picture may look a little 'edgy'. Having said that: the issue is a lot less visible on the 2405 compared to other, smaller LCD's due to it's small pixel size. I actually have one dead pixel in the center of the screen, but it's is only visible if you have a white background and really go looking for it. I couldn't even be bothered to use my 14 day replacement guarantee over this :).If you have a recent video card or consider getting one in the near future you will be pleased to know that FS offers the screens native resolution of 1920 to 1200 :)Once you fire up the sim and get into an aircraft you will however notice that the 2D panels will appear a little stretched. It is no big deal and I don't notice it much any more, but someone else might consider it differently. I'll post a screenshot if you'd be interested.You can bypass that issue by changing the panel bitmap to a 16:10 aspect, if you are willing and able to do so.The good news is that this is the only issue. Everything else (e.g. the virtual cockpit, the scenery, the external view) is displayed without any stretching whatsoever. I found that the widescreen aspect made the sim a lot more realistic for me. The added 'viewing angle' is stunning and I wouldn't go back to a 4:3 if I had too. It's hard to describe but the sim feels a lot more real to me. I find myself using the virtual cockpit a lot more and plan on getting a TrackIR with the expansion kit at some stage in the future. I expect the results to be no less then stunning and I'm pretty sure the combination of the screen and the head tracking will make me ditch 2d panels all together :)Someone argued that FS 'cuts' of the top and bottom of the image in order to achieve the widescreen aspect. I have used the screen for many hours in conjunction with FS and I can't honestly say that I ever noticed that. If it does so it doesn't make a difference to me, and I am very picky when it comes to FS. I honestly couldn't tell, and I find the argument purely 'academic'.Buying this screen was one of the best hardware upgrades that I have done in a long time and I can really recommend it for FS if you can live with the slight stretching in the 2d panel.Let me know if you have any more questions (and NO: I'm not with Dell or any other LCD manufacturer ;-) )Regards,AlexP.S.: If you'd like a screenshot let me know what you want to see and I'll post it.

[Bluescaster 21]

Hi Alex, It is always pleasing to hear from someone actually using a particular piece of equipment. I have to say I'd like to have had that type of monitor available when I bought my CRT :-) Don't get me wrong - as said in earlier posts; I'm very pleased with the CRT and LCD wasn't really an option (I don't think) at the time - however the CRT does take up a lot more room than I can really spare on my desk. Thanks for sharing your experience.Regards Blue