P4 3.2 vs. 2.8 - big difference in performance or not?

[Guest southie4]

One resolution to a problem I'm having (see link below if curious) would be to use a P4 2.8 ghz cpu in place of the 3.2 ghz cpu that I have been using for a few years. The pc has now been running with a resource- intensive aquarium screensaver for over five days with the 2.8 cpu and there has been no problem at all. Put the 3.2 back in and system shuts down and on reboot I get a thermal event message as reason for the shut down.I'm wondering if it would it be a dramatic drop in performance or a barely visible one?If not for Flight Simulator, it probably would not be an issue and I would just leave the 2.8 in there. I still might leave it anyway due to the problem I've been having.http://forums.flightsim.com/dc/dcboard.php..._id=28229&page=Thanks,RobertP IV 3.2 ghz, 2gb DDR ram,Intel D865GBF 800 FSB mobo, 512mg ATI Radeon x1650 Pro graphic card, 500gb & 160gb Seagate 7200 RPM Ultra ATA 100 hard drives, Win XP Home Edition, 19" ViewSonic E 90f+SB monitor, 450 ATX power supply and Saitek 52 throttle/joystick

[Guest baksteen33]

Hi Robert, very strange indeed... Is the 2.8 a Northwood and the 3.2 a Prescott? Just a guess, maybe your power supply is not up to the task any longer? PSUs occasionally wear. Secondly, have you tried MemTest86+ from www.memtest.org. If not, it's warmly recommended. The more passes, the more reliable the result. Could be a faulty mem module? MemTest stresses the subsystem minus the GPU. Good luck and kind regards Jaap

[Guest wayupthere]

Indeed agree with what Jaap said, just reading through your sig, you do have alot of HW, and a lowly PSU. What brand of PSU is it?... It could be an undervolt source that's causing you problems, have you checked the rail voltage on your PSU under load?.

[Guest baksteen33]

This might sound funny, Davis, this is the time I refer to as highly 'seasonal'. ;-) In Spring, you'll see many 'seasonal' CTDs, 'seasonal' BSODs, you name it! It would be interesting to learn whether technicians in the Southern Hemisphere see the same prob in their Spring? Hope you're doing yoku and filling those stadiums upto the last seat. Cheers and kind regards Jaap

[Guest wayupthere]

Haha Jaap, yeah i know what you mean with the seasonal "Windows meltdowns" some people get these days hehe. Well it's true though, you see ALOT more people coming onto Tech boards asking for help when spring/summer comes around. And yes im doing great, getting everything ready for the 3rd Yokohama show on the 19th, and then of to Nagoya hehe.. Just check your mail ;)

[Guest southie4]

Actually, Jaap, it's the other way around. The 2.8ghz cpu is Prescott and the 3.2 is a Northwood stick.I did install and run MemTest86+ but it was not easy to decipher, at least not for somebody like me who is not familiar with it. I don't recall any accompanying instructions. All is know is that I did not receive any type of error message or warning regarding bad memory.I was wondering myself whether, after 3 years or so,the power supply could now be having some issues that just happened to start to manifest itself a few hours after installing the new memory.Thanks,Robert

[Guest southie4]

I think it is an ATX psu, Davis, but I don't have it in front of me right now. That is how I deciphered it when I created the signature below some time ago.At the time (3 years ago?), I thought 450 was pretty decent. What is recommended these days?I am unfamiliar with the term, "rail voltage". What is it and how would I test it?Thanks,RobertP IV 3.2 ghz, 2gb DDR ram,Intel D865GBF 800 FSB mobo, 512mg ATI Radeon x1650 Pro graphic card, 500gb & 160gb Seagate 7200 RPM Ultra ATA 100 hard drives, Win XP Home Edition, 19" ViewSonic E 90f+SB monitor, 450 ATX power supply and Saitek 52 throttle/joystick

[Guest baksteen33]

hi Robert, MemTest has to be burned onto a bootable CD AFAIK. Then you let it run for say 24 hours. If you see messages other than the regular MemTest screen, something is wrong with your mem. Pls note, it doesn't necessarily have to be a mem-module, it could also be a Bios setting. If it's a no-name PSU, yes, everything is possible. Maybe you can make a picture of the sticker and post it here? PSUs are very important for a reliable FlyTendo @ 100%. ;-) Good luck and kind regards Jaap

[Guest southie4]

Thanks, Jaap. I did make a bootable cd and ran the utility for an hour or so. I'll run it longer next time.I'll also have to examine the psu more closely. I take it that "ATX" is not recognized by you as a psu brand name.Thanks,RobertP IV 3.2 ghz, 2gb DDR ram,Intel D865GBF 800 FSB mobo, 512mg ATI Radeon x1650 Pro graphic card, 500gb & 160gb Seagate 7200 RPM Ultra ATA 100 hard drives, Win XP Home Edition, 19" ViewSonic E 90f+SB monitor, 450 ATX power supply and Saitek 52 throttle/joystick

[Guest wayupthere]

Hi Robert,ATX isn't a brand, its a standard. You have either ATX or BTX models.Just read on the label what company made it. As to the standard. Currently a 450w is the bare minimum, with current hardware getting faster, and people buying more hardware e.a Hardrives. The more juice is used, specially regarding GPUs. Best to have atleast 500w-550w for the basics, like for example my system would not even have enough if i had a 550w. So in al the more things you have, automatically more juice is needed to keep the system stable. You can find a nice program here, you can read out, temps, and also volatage used. http://www.almico.com/speedfan.phpHope this is easy to understand, its early morning here and I need some sleep, been a longggg day...

[Guest baksteen33]

Hi Robert, the more error-free passes the more reliable the result. I'ld let it go well beyond 15 passes if possible. Nevertheless, perhaps check the PSU bit first? Good morning, Davis! :-) Kind regards Jaap Edited because I still can't spell! :-)

[Guest southie4]

Hello Jaap, Davis,The psu I have appears to be a Colorful Premier Performance Pro with dual fans.I also checked a psu guide at Tiger Direct and it would seem from calculations based on that guide that I am running very close (within 15-20 watts)to the maximum wattage the psu can put out.A different such guide elsewhere (extreme.outervision.com)produces a different result and would leave me within 125 watts of the maximium my cpu is capable of producing.I'm thinking of getting one of these CPUs:http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Se...4638&CatId=1483http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Se...7450&CatId=1483If not for the fact that I recently had to send a huge check to the IRS, I would probably go for something more expensive.Thanks,RobertP IV 3.2 ghz, 2gb DDR ram,Intel D865GBF 800 FSB mobo, 512mg ATI Radeon x1650 Pro graphic card, 500gb & 160gb Seagate 7200 RPM Ultra ATA 100 hard drives, Win XP Home Edition, 19" ViewSonic E 90f+SB monitor, 450 ATX power supply and Saitek 52 throttle/joystick

[Guest baksteen33]

Hi Robert, with a P4 and X1650, I think over 500W is overkill. Unless you're planning into a future upgrade? Personally, I'ld certainly look for PSUs with larger fans because they're quiter. Perhaps also look at brands like Seasonic, Enermax, Antec, Be-Quiet and other quality makes? The best would be to test 'a known to be good' PSU before exchanging. Are you sure the PSU is the prob? Kind regards Jaap

[Guest southie4]

Well,you were the first, Jaap, to mention that my psu might no longer "be up to the task" and Davis refered to my psu as "lowly". I had been thinking at one point that the psu was the common denominator when tryiny to assess whether the source of the problem was the new memory, the beefed up hard drives, the cpu or the motherboard.With yours and Davis' input it confirmed to me that I must look further into the psu as the source of the problem.I used a third calculator that gauges your psu needs tonight and it, too, suggested that I am at the verge of exceeding the 450 watt capacity of my psu, given what I have in this rig.If I had a psu available that was rated at 450 or better I'd love to try it out as a test but, like I said, most indicators are suggesting that I need more wattage given my hardware configuration.Thus, I believe that even if it turns out not to be the source of thr problem, it would be an area that would have to be addressed anyway.Given how the problem has manifested itself, though, I am confident the the issue boils down to the psu. I have seen recommendations that you should have a psu with wattage capacity twice what you regularly and actually need. With that in mind, I should be using an 800 watt capacity psu.out Based on calculations offered by some web sites, I might be only about 13 watts below capacity.And if my present psu has a built-in protector that shuts the system down before damage can occur - like many PSUs I've read about - then that explains the symptoms that I have been experiencing.I think you guys were onto something and I thank you for pointing me in this direction.Thanks,RobertP IV 3.2 ghz, 2gb DDR ram,Intel D865GBF 800 FSB mobo, 512mg ATI Radeon x1650 Pro graphic card, 500gb & 160gb Seagate 7200 RPM Ultra ATA 100 hard drives, Win XP Home Edition, 19" ViewSonic E 90f+SB monitor, 450 ATX power supply and Saitek 52 throttle/joystick

[Guest baksteen33]

Hi Robert, I just asked the 'are you sure?' question to verify it's really the source of the prob. AIM, best would be to test it with a 'known to be good' PSU before going ahead. Otherwise, well, some will suggest you build an atomic plant next to your house. :-) Or, at Tom's Hardware Guide for example, there are ALWAYS only two winners. The web is full of folks trying to sell or push something. Whilst many of them are decent & honest, some of them are at least dubious. Take the 'double the wattage' recommendation for example --> pura 'BoSta'. ;-) What you get with quality PSUs, is, if it says 33A on the 5V rail, such power supplies usually are up to that task. Cheap ones will have a rating, but it's not guaranteed they can actually hold what's mentioned on the sticker. Plus cheaper ones wear quicker. Etc. Get the catch? With an X1650 and a P4, >500W remains overkill IMO. One of my TestTendos is a 'slightly less' setup than yours with a 350W PSU for example. Therefore, I'ld tend to believe the measurement which indicated a headroom of roughly 100W on your end. Finally, using far bigger ones than necessary will mainly make the electricity companies happy. ;-) Plus, overdimensioned PSUs will make a system run hotter because they induce more heat than necessary back into the case. I guess Davis and myself have a lot of cooling so this isn't much of a prob. As usual, I hope this adds to thoughts, Robert. Kind regards Jaap