~S~ to all.I just started to fly choppers, what a great experience it is.For years I was only flying fixed wings (also have a PP SEL for ten years) and man how much fun did I miss.First of all I want to thank HoverSafe Academy for their outstanding lessons, I never got to enjoy helicopters in FS 98 and FS2kpro, since all I did was shooting up like a rocket and crash land after I was done.Now I can hover a little, take of like a real helicopter and skit land at 20 -30 mph.When I feel comfortable I might even take the flight-tests.Now some nub questions:I have the very first original MS force feedback stick, it works the way it should with all games and most planes in FS 2k2, but not with choppers (the stick is adjusted and centered etc.).What I mean is the stick has no center point (like the spring action in all four directions), that force is just missing. It is very lose and therefore when I put some rudder I always unintentionally bank to the left or the right.Is this supposed to be this way, or can I edit some .cfg file to get a center point?Some choppers have other forces, like taxi, crash and gear.Next question:I installed a few choppers and added them to my aircrafts file.I used AI Traffic Mover to scramble flights for all aircraft. I can see lots of AI (all my installed PAI aircrafts, the once originally installed and some others I installed), but I never see a helicopter (not even parked on the ground.About the parking part, is there a way to see all my favorites choppers parked at my local airport (I know how to edit airports with AFCAD)?Sorry for all those question and thank you to the once who can help.

First, welcome to flying helicopters! You're doing better than I do... I've been working with the choppers in FS now for months and STILL can't land the suckers! :-lol (And, yes, I know all about HoverSafe and have been using their lessons -- I guess not very well, however! :-doh) Regarding your questions: All the info I've been able to find online about virtual chopper flying recommends disabling any force feedback you have on your stick. Apparently it really serves no useful purpose when flying helicopters and interferes with the precise control necessary. (Although if you can land 'em, sounds to me as if you're doing just fine WITH the FFB. ;-) ) Other than that, I don't know anything about the use of FFB with helicopters since I don't have that type of stick anyway. Someone else asked about AI choppers in FS not long ago (like maybe a couple of weeks). I believe the response was that there aren't any..... just like you don't see AI float planes either. Now it's possible to create scenery with static helicopters (I know this because I have some) but as I understand it, choppers won't show up spontaneously even as static aircraft. Maybe someone else has more info on these issues -- maybe someone has even solved the mystery of AI helicopter traffic. Let's hope so.-Lindy :-rotor

Hy!Well, I use a FF-Joystick, too, and I have the same symptoms: no forces while flying the helicopters. On the other hand, it makes life easier (if we can speak of "easier" regarding helicopters... :-) ): I have no rudder-pedals, so I need to use the build-in rudder of my stick, which will center itself... I found it much more practicable to bank right while flying, than to use the rudder. This is, if I remember correctly, recommended by Cal Booth on HoverSave, too. But I think it

Thanks to both of you for your replies.So I guess my setup with the stick is fine then, ohh well, I might have to buy some rudder pedals.Czoczek, deine english schreibweise ist viel besser als meine deutsche schreibweise, ich bin vor 18 jahren aus Deutschland ausgewandert und habe so ziemlich alles vergessen was die deutsche rechtschreibung angeht.So all we have to figure out now, is how we can get those beautiful helicopters to show up as AI or at least to get them parked at our favorite airport.

Helllloooooo...Reference the helicopters AI, some time ago, a chap did manage to get helicopters to work as AI, unfortunatley he diidn't have the time to invest in the project (i.e. to make it so damn fool proof that no-one would ever complain that "this doesn't work properly" etc) however, he did package what he had done and put it in the file libraries here at AVSIM. It is basically a starting poit for anyone else to have a go at, do a search in 2002 misc for aicopters.zip and give it a go!I had intended to have a go myself but have been too busy (and have never really had a go with traffic tools, afcad atc), so maybe you could give it a whirl and let us know how you get on...Best of luckAlun

Thats a great question..I have used many different stick/pedal combinations (some home made) all had unique attributes.... when I moved my PC recently, I reinstated my old MSFF j/s and I now use it regularly.Here's the trick - for fixed wing - plug in the power cord... for helos unplug it! Works great - takes a little getting used to with the narrow-throttle control-band and twist-rudder (kind of alien to real-life helicopters)... but you can fly any FS helo comfortably with it!

Lindy,Try the GMAX Bell47 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jm.mermaz/telechar...echargement.htm - it's a little more forgiving in transitional flight! :)Also check out these links:http://www.bell47helicopterassociation.org/

On the Chopper AI, there was a file in the library by Sambob and it was the info he used to start trying to get heli AI. He could never get them to land and they took off like a plane, because you have to replace the airflie to even get them to show up. I experimented with it for awhile and it was a headache! I used the Dauphin since it was gmax and I changed the panel to the default bell and switched out airfiles for the Goodyear blimp and then tried the hot air balloon. I managed to get them to show up, which was very cool, but never take off, they would follow the route across the ground. I did manage to get the hot air balloons to work though! LOL. After working on it for a couple of months, gave up. There probably is a way, just didn't find it.Michaelhttp://www.geocities.com/res052cd/cmhbanner.gif

Hello Cyborg and welcome to the world of whirling trouble ;)Helicopters don

thanks for the reply, yeah, I thought about getting some pedals, but I'm also getting better with the choppers, I guess it takes a lot of getting used to. My friend is going to germany next week, maybe he could bring me those pedals, if you find the guys link.

here is the promised link:(unfortunately there is no English version)http://www.flugsimulator.de/hse/simped.htmThese pedals come in several versions and at a high price, but the quality is outstanding. One of them is especially tweaked for helicopter-flight.

Thanks for the link.BTW, what do you think about the Pro Pedals from CH?

I use CH Pro Pedals all the time, and find that they work very well. My setup uses the older Thrustmaster set up, the FCS/WCS set-up with the joystick (cyclic) and separate throttle (collective), which works well with the rudder pedals (anit-torque pedals). I would highly recommend those pedals to you.As for the previous questions on force feedback, it is my understanding that force feedback is not something that you find in helicopter simming. I don't know that it would net you much anyway. Even in real world helicopter flying, the forces can be somewhat discerning at times, depending on the attitude of flight at that moment. You need to concentrate on the visual picture and just do what is required. Say, for example, that you are in a climbing right turn, where you might have to use left pedal, or a descending left turn, where you would have to use right pedal. In other words, Anti-torque pedal relates to power application, not direction of flight. What would the force feedback really buy you? When flying helicopters, you have to pretty much forget 'fixed wing' except for navigation and weather.Helicopters are a whole different breed of cat. They are certainly an exercise in torque balance and aerodynamics. Michael is very sharp with AI stuff, so if he says helos won't work well, they probably won't. I could certainly see where the takeoff and landing part ("hovering") would be an issue. Just my two cents worth.'Rexbo'