Hi all,I've recently started using the CFMU system over on the eurocontrol website to validate the flightplans I make. I've come across a couple of errors that I cannot figure out how to resolve and I'm looking here for some help. The routes I've made are for GSM228 and GSM229, Flyglobespan Glasgow - Gran Canaria - Glasgow:My flightplans:(FPL-GSM228-IS-B738/M-SIRWY/C-EGPF1200-M078F360 TRN UP600 LASNO T9 BEGAS UP47 RIPEL UP621 ORTIS-GCLP0430 - )-ERROR ROUTE: INVALID RFL AT EUR RVSM AIRSPACE ENTRY/EXIT-ERROR ROUTE: INVALID EUR RVSM AIRSPACE ENTRY/EXIT CONDITIONOn the return leg:(FPL-GSM229-IS-B738/M-SIRWY/C-GCLP1200-M078F350 BIMBO UP615 XERES UP46 BEGAS T9 LASNO UP600 TRN-EGPF0430 - )-ERROR ROUTE: INVALID EUR RVSM AIRSPACE ENTRY/EXIT CONDITIONAs far as I can tell, I'm always within RVSM airspace so I don't know where the errors are coming from.Any advice?Thanks,David

Hi David,It's true you're always within RVSM airspace on those routes, but T9 is actually outside European RVSM airspace, so that's why you have to file a speed/altitude change at the beginning and end of T9 (LASNO & BEGAS). The second error you get on the first route is because you're willing to fly FL360 on T9, which has only odd levels available southbound. If you use this route for example, you won't get an error: N0448F360 TRN UP600 LASNO/M078F370 T9 BEGAS/N0448F370 UP47 RIPEL UP621 ORTIS.Cheers,http://home.planet.nl/~duijn181/cu2/koen.jpg

Hi Koen,Thanks for the info. I notice from the enroute charts (I'm using the NGA charts) that T9 is just west of BOTA. How do you know that that route only allows backward as$ flight levels?Thanks again,David

Further to my last reply:I found the airway UP615 and UP46 have non standard altitude rules which essentially confines a heavily loaded 737 to FL350 until BEGAS. However I couldn't find the details on FL's for T9.Here is the route now for GSM229:M078F350 BIMBO UP615 XERES UP46 BEGAS/M078F360 T9 LASNO/M078F370 UP600 TRNThat's some crazy stuff! Europe would be a d@mn sight easier to navigate if the Single Sky system was implemented. Cheers,David

Hi David,> How do you know that that route only allows backward as$ flight levels?I get my information from the Aeronautical Information Publications, which can be found here for the largest part of Europe: http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/publicuser/...ic/pu/login.jsp (registration is free!). An alternative is you buy enroute charts, which depict the direction of cruising levels (Jeppesen)...> I found the airway UP615 and UP46 have non standard altitude rules That's correct, you've to use even levels northbound, and odd levels southbound. Note that's very common in the southern part of Europe. In Spain, France, Italy and Portugal almost all cruising levels are assigned using this system (division north/south, rather than east/west).> which essentially confines a heavily loaded 737 to FL350 until BEGAS.Well, that has nothing to do with the airways, but with the weight of the aircraft itself... If you think the aircraft's to heavy to climb above FL350 before BEGAS, you should fly it at FL340 till then (FL350 is not available, see above).> Here is the route now for GSM229: M078F350 BIMBO UP615 XERES UP46 BEGAS/M078F360 T9 LASNO/M078F370 UP600 TRNOk, looks good, but the cruising levels till BEGAS have to be even levels, and all speeds, except on T9, should be filed in knots true airspeed. I would suggest this route:N0452F340 BIMBO UP615 XERES UP46 BEGAS/M078F360 T9 LASNO/N0448F370 UP600 TRN> Europe would be a d@mn sight easier to navigate if the Single Sky system was implemented. I agree, but it seems the airspace structure only got more complicated in the past years, though there are some projects running to improve things (Eurocontrol's RNDSG for example).Let me know if you've any more questions. :)Cheers,http://home.planet.nl/~duijn181/cu2/koen.jpg

Hi again Koen,I couldn't find any decent enroute charts on the eurocontrol site pertaining to that area. The ones I'm using are the enroute charts from NGA's DAFIF publication.https://164.214.2.62/products/digitalaero/t...r&country=enameCheck chart T1 (number 43) for the North Atlantic Inset.The reason I mentioned FL350 can be demonstrated by this picture of the above mentioned chart and a snippet of info from the legend of another enroute chart from the same page above:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/119408.jpgAs you can see airway UP615 has a B > above it which, from the legend snip, means that the FL's available to me would be 310, 350 or 390. 310 is kinda low, 390 is too high so it's 350 for a couple hundread miles (hence my comments :))On the PAMS light I found the RNAV route data for UP615 from the AIP Portugal which contradicts this:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/119409.jpgStill haven't found any charts or info for T9 bar the NGA stuff.How do you work out TAS if you don't know what your IAS will be at an altitude? The equation I have is TAS=((2%IAS)(ALT/1000))+IASI use Mach because that's what I fly with and the plans are only going to be used by myself anyways, keeps things simple.Cheers,David

Hi David,I see what you mean, but the legend you got there does not apply to RVSM airspace. In RVSM airspace, A would mean odd cruising levels, while B would mean even cruising levels (like in the only official source, the AIP Portugal). If it doesn't say A or B, cruising levels are assigned with the east/west rule (east = odd, west = even).> How do you work out TAS if you don't know what your IAS will be at > an altitude? The equation I have is TAS=((2%IAS)(ALT/1000))+IAS> I use Mach because that's what I fly with and the plans are only> going to be used by myself anyways, keeps things simple.It's no probs if you want to use Mach numbers, but if you need to know your true airspeed, these equations will give you a good approximation:FL300-FL350: (-2.58*(Altitude-30000)/1000+589.5)*Mach_NumberFL360: 574.6*Mach_NumberFL370 and above: 573.8*Mach_NumberCheers,http://home.planet.nl/~duijn181/cu2/koen.jpg

Hi Koen,I'll take your word for it on the A and B thing. Searched for hours and still couldn't find any clarification. Does that mean that it is standard RVSM rules except a different alt/direction system?I looked up the airways in all the relevant AIP's and found the airway alt/direction rules. I'll stick to them from now on.The only airway I couldn't find head nor tail of was T9. Probably because it is outwith Irish, Spanish, French and Portugese airspace.Can you direct me to the chart/table you used to find the airway details?Thanks for the TAS equations :)Have a good one,David

Hi again,> I'll take your word for it on the A and B thing. Searched for > hours and still couldn't find any clarification. Does that mean > that it is standard RVSM rules except a different alt/direction > system?Yes, the only difference is there is a north/south division of flight levels, rather than an east/west division. Because that system's very common in Europe, I think it's strange NGA has only a legend for non-RVSM airspace.> The only airway I couldn't find head nor tail of was T9. Probably > because it is outwith Irish, Spanish, French and Portugese airspace.> Can you direct me to the chart/table you used to find the airway details?T9 is in UK airspace, so the details should be found on UK AIP page ENR 3.5. The only problem is, that's a white page saying "To be developed"... For the moment, it seems T9 is only mentioned on page ENR 2.2-4-19, without any details. According to the Portugese AIP, the exact details of the T-routes can be found in the report of the NATSPG/25 meeting, but I haven't been able to find it on the web. Anyway, CFMU, Jeppesen and Shanwick radio comms all confirm that T9 has odd levels southbound...Cheers,http://home.planet.nl/~duijn181/cu2/koen.jpg

Hi Koen,I listened in to the real GSM228 tonight from take off to somewhere over Ireland (not bad for a

Hi David,I've sent an e-mail to the Flight Planning office of the UK ATC to clarify T9's direction of cruising levels. If I get a reply from them I'll let you know.> Do you have access to the real world filled flight plans? If you > do is there any chance you could look up GSM228 and 229 for me? > I've already requested in another thread but I think it's died.I've access to some real world routes via FBOWeb (without speed & altitude changes), but for some reason I've never been able to find a single GSM flight. A few other carriers, like ThomsonFly and TUI Belgium appear to be missing from their databases too...Cheers,http://home.planet.nl/~duijn181/cu2/koen.jpg

Hey,I think FBOweb only displays flights that route through US airspace which would explain why GSM ain't shown yet, they're planning on flying GLA to the US in a 777 in the near future.I had a look to see if I could get BAW6994 which routes LGW-LPA on FBOweb but it couldn't find it.I'll make a new request here for GSM flight plans with 228/229 as specific requests.Take it easy,David

Hi David,I promised to get back on this one. Sorry that it has been quite a while!This is what I got from the Flight Planning department of the NATS:"There are no directional levels on T9, as Shanwick prefer to give operators the freedom to flight plan their preferred level regardless of direction. If there's no conflicting traffic when the Operator calls for clearance the operator will get the requested level."They also admitted that the AIP was a little bit unclear about this, and that there indeed was an error in CFMU, which only allowed odd levels southbound and had FL370 in its database as a maximum level. But that will all be corrected soon:"A note will be placed in the relevant section of the UK AIP, and an amendment has been submitted to CFMU."I hope this finally answers your question. :)Cheers,http://home.planet.nl/~duijn181/cu2/koen.jpg