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Guest belga1

De Havilland DHC3T Turbo Otter Wheel & Ski Package contacts points ??

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Hello,Problems with contacts points (tail sink in ground)Not able to correct them with "Aircraft Container" software.Also weird ... this plane is loaded twice under FS9 plane with two different download namesAnyone a idea ? (170 D/L :) )Cheers for now.

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The sinking tailwheel is not a contact points thing, if it was everyone would see it. Try re-installing the package, or even deleting and download again.The double posting of the FS9 version is due to a misunderstanding in the file library. Bob.

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Hello,Thank you very much for your answer....Anyways I must say this plane is a little bugger !!!I downloaded the two ZIP's from Avsim and also the zip file located at the flightsim.com site.Nothing to do with a bad downloaded file :)Anyways my searches show (with the software "aircraft container"):When used with the original aircraft.cfg the tail is completely in the ground (the plane have a angle like 30

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Do you start from a saved situation (location etc) or "fresh" from the 'create a flight' menu ?Sometimes saved situations have trouble loading a taildragger when the original saved model was a tricycle u/c job.Bob.

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Hello again :)Thank you for your followup and the suggestion.Indeed I was loading the plane in a already created situation (default Cessna 172 .. engine running etc .. on the runway of SSR Airport Mauritius)So I created a entire new flight situation as you suggested ... but the result is the same (tail in the ground :) )So .. me think it must be a other problem involved.By the numbers of downloads .. I will be curious if anyone here will post result he have with this plane and in wich situation (airport etc...)And I still with my wonders about the strange results showed by the soft "Aircraft Container" :)Cheers for now.

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You may have guessed by now that this model is "my baby".From all sources so far downloads exceed 5,000. Apart from you, only one other person has reported ( via Premier Aircraft Design support ) this sinking problem and he solved it by deleting and re-loading the model.I just tried starting up at both of the airports in Mauritius (default FS9 scenery) and see no problem.Try one more thing...exit completely from FS9 then start it up again and go to 'create a flight' choose the DHC3 on wheels and any airport other than the one you usually use. See what happens. Bob.

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Hi Bob,And thank you for a nice plane but!!!I do have the same problems as the original thread starter.The tail sinks into the ground and moreover, as I have the FS9.cfg on starting with engines shut down, I don't even manage to get them fired up. Maybe it is a related issue but the outcome is the same: I can't use it.Pity for sure because I like your plane very much. Maybe it is just a tiny little thing like the gauge files are all in the panel folder inluding the cab files. Isthat the way it should be? I tried to move them to the gauges folder but the result is nil difference.Roby

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Hello,Bobmay .. thank you again for your answer and suggestions... and support.First of all I use all the aircrafts from Premier Aircraft Design with 100 % satisfaction.Kudos for those fine models.So return to this small bugger :)For be sure I downloaded again the plane from Premieraircraft site ...Installed it again and following your suggestion .. I go to a other airport (Abbeville - France)Geeez !! LOL .. the tail in the ground again.Seem's a other people to add tot he list (just the message before this one :) )And indeed .. despite the tail in ground I tried to start the engine but failed ... :)Maybe finally it's a little thing wrong their in our wonderfull world :)It's may be anything .. I readed so much of peoples with so weird probs in FS9 (this forum is full of .. lol)But it's certainly not the PRESENCE of the gauges in the panel folder the source of the problem.....IMHOSo .. waiting better times .. I put this Dehavilland in the attic.Cheers for now.

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Well, I'm very disappointed that some people can't use this model. I have no idea what the cause of this sinking thing is and you will appreciate that it's impossible for developers to test for, and fix, problems that they can't see themselves.I suppose when you consider all the variables out there : XP & Vista operating systems, various Nvidia & ATI graphics cards, various Intel & AMD processors, and then throw in add on scenery, add on meshes, add on weather and a host of other addons, it's a wonder that anything works at all.Bob.

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Hello,Yes Bob .. of course ... the diversity of hardware - softwares is also a source of weird problems ... but for me so far .. I must be blessed or protected by the gods .. as I never suffered such pains :)On a other hand... and by my own experience .. 5.000 downloads .. and not a (or two :) at least) complains about a problem is not a accurate figure ...As you know certainly .. peoples are so lazy .. then when something is no good for them.. they don't bother to repair .. but instead .. trow it in the garbagge bin .. and go out to buy a other goodie LOL.When time allow (and my mood :) ) I will check again this famous plane (a forensic job lol)Keep going the good job !Cheers for now.

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Hi Bob,I looked into the tail wheel in the ground problem and found the plane jumps about three feet in the air when you use slew mode to find the center of gravity height. When I changed the center of gravity height and the slope to bring the wheels to the ground in slew mode it fixed the tail wheel problem. I noticed water rudder entries in the contact points...Is there any reason for this? Are the contact points in this aircraft cfg file for an amphibian and were cobbled into a wheeled plane without being fully integrated? There is a landing gear system entry at the end of the contact points section also. Is the rest of the aircraft cfg file for an amphibian? I also cannot get the engine to fire even with a cntrl-e start-up. One of your beta testers should have noticed this since obviously more than one or two of us out here have these problems. The DHC-3T is an aircraft that deserves to have a quality version in the sim world, so please take another look at it.Thanks, Mark

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Hi,Well, I was going to say the same thing. I changed the cg height, made some adaptations to other contact points, deleted the last two points and the sinking tail problem is solved. Now I will check if I can get the engine started using another panel.Roby

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Hello,I must shot .. as the goal is open .....Don't take it wrong Bob .. but seem's Premier Aircraft Design have suddenly more beta testers .. :)More we are ... more fun !Cheers for now.

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Hi all and hello again Bob,I switched panels and used your own PAD dhc2 MKIII turbo amphibian panel and got the engine working. In the light of all this, maybe there is some mix up in the files uploaded to the AVSIM library? By the way, both the files for FSX and FS9 are exactly the same.Roby

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Sorry, I was wrong I think. At least they are not the same anymore now.Roby

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Hello,My tought at the light of the last posts is :The aircraft must certainly run very good and was tested by the devellopers or the beta testers... but the files who were uploaded on the differents host sites are not the one tested.So to be fair .. I suspect a mismatch when the files to be released were packed.Cheers for now.

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Hi, AllIf you change the contact points to:[contact_points]point.0 = 1, 4.00, -5.80, -6.64, 2600, 1, 0.950, 0.00, 0.4, 2.5, 0.8, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0point.1 = 1, 4.00, 5.80, -6.64, 2600, 2, 0.950, 0.00, 0.4, 2.5, 0.8, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0point.2 = 1, -25.31, 0.00, -2.3, 2200, 0, 0.48, 90.0, 0.4, 2.5, 0.8, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0point.3 = 2, 0.00, -24.00, 3.50, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0point.4 = 2, 0.00, 24.00, 3.50, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 6, 0.0, 0.0point.5 = 2, -22.60, 0.00, 1.20, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 9, 0.0, 0.0point.6 = 2, 11.00, 0.00, 0.00, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0;point.7 = 5, -13.60, -5.60, -6.00, 1600, 0, 0.00, 50.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.00, 1.0, 1.2, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0;point.8 = 5, -13.60, 5.60, -6.00, 1600, 0, 0.00, 50.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.00, 1.1, 1.5, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0static_pitch = 8.9 //degrees, pitch when at rest on the ground (+=Up, -=Dn)static_cg_height = 5.600 //feet, altitude of CG when at rest on the groundmax_number_of_points = 13;gear_system_type=1 //HydraulicAnd, use only the center position on the fuel switch the plane will fly as delivered.Everything else seems to be fine and the plane flies like a dream.Thanks, Mark

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Hi Mark,Well, I will be working as a Beta tester again, this time for you.You know from my comments earlier on that I changed the contact points using more or less the figures of the DHC2 from Premier Aircraft Design (and that panel to get the engine started). Although I still had to finetune them, the tail did not sink into the ground anymore (although flightdynamics were rather out of the ordinary but that might have been due to the contact points not being in the right position, I haven't the faintest). But as you posted the new contact points, I just deleted mine and put in yours and, see what happens: the plane crashes while standing on the ground (on default terrain). I will try again without points 7 and 8 and see what happens next.PAD's DHC2 work fine and are lovely to fly with so I guess they will come up shortly with a fix for our problem.RobyPS I also downloaded the file from their own website but they have the wheeled version in one zip and the ski in another zip. The same problem occurred though. I am on Vista, would that have anything to do with it? Just guessing.

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Many thanks to Roby and Mark for your interest in this.It's a complicated issue because we tested this model in XP and Vista with a variety of hardware and see no problems with the tail sitting at all. We can see from Mark's post above that a 'solution' that works for one user is not a solution for anotherYes, the aircraft config may have some unwanted clutter in because we are developing wheeled, amphibian and float versions all at the same time, but it if that was going to cause a problem we would have seen it.The static height numbers seem to only affect the slew mode but maybe, just maybe, it's causing a prob for some usersRevised number below keeps the plane on the ground when slewing, maybe those simmers with sinking tailwheels could see if it makes a difference.static_cg_height =5.6 // 7.900 //feet, height of CG when at rest on the groundAnother thing you might try is to start from the 'create a flight' menu, choose a default taildragger (Douglas DC-3) and after it loads switch to the DHC-3 Otter. I'd be interested to know if that cures it.Bob.

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Hi Bob,I have been working on trying to make your plane work and fly.Nothing I did could prevent the tail of the plane sinking into the ground (I had two installs before, one from AVSIM with both ski and wheels and one wheeled install from your own website). Switching the contact points to the ones Mark used, made my plane crash at starting FS up. So I deleted the installed aircraft and installed again.Shows up a message "aircraft initiation failure, Flight Simulator has to abort or something".Finally, because I was not able to get rid of the message and unable to get FS going and also because I already found it rather funny that a new session always started where the previous flight ended, I thought of deleting the fs9.cfg and let FS build a new one.Surprise! Your plane flies like a (happy) bird, no more sinking, no more sluggish flight dynamics, no stalls, just a very, very nice bush plane like the ones you made before.Unfortunately, and this could be the start of a whole series of new threads, my water textures (silverwings) and cloud and terrain settings are gone even after putting back the old settings. I still must try to reinstall them, but be it said that:Your bird is beautiful, dynamics are OK, and the rest remains to be figured out as to what the cause could be.Roby with headaches

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Well, thanks Roby. Sorry 'bout your sky and water stuff tho'.Maybe the few other users who have seen this issue with the DHC-3 also have incompatible stuff lurking in their FS9.cfg ?With so many possible variations of add-ons for FS9 I guess it's inevitable that cans of worms are going to be opened sooner or later...and we have that to look forward to in FSX in a year or two :-(Bob.

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Hello,mwritz ... bingo ! :)Your solution work fine for me.Thank's for nail it :)So I have now 361 planes installed and working nice :)I use WinXP Sp1a and a game FS9 tweaked at max with many addon's like meshes.. sceneries .. Ultimate terrains ... weather addon's etc...This game sometime drive you nuts .. but when all work it's wonderfull.I hope one day Premier Aircraft Design will find a universal solution for this fantastic plane.Cheers for now.

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Hi Bob, And thank you for a nice new plane.And yes, I guess you are right about the addons wreaking havoc sometimes as does FS by the way.Nothing is perfect in life, and me far from it,if I have to believe my wife.Roby

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