Bug in the 737NG Load Manager

[dave_paige 11]

I've owned and flown the PMDG 737NG for years now and love it. But, after all these years, I just discovered a bug in the Load Manager. When using the mixed configuration tabs, once you select your passenger count for both first class and coach, the passenger weight shown in the Load Manager will be calculated correctly. But when you save the config the Load Manager will only write the weight for the coach passengers into the aircraft config file. In other words, it ignores the first class passengers when actually writing the passenger weight into the aircraft config file.When using the single configuration tabs the weight is written correctly into the aircraft config file as there are no first class passengers.I'm wondering if anyone here, particular someone from PMDG could confirm this.

[Guest CRJ_simpilot]

I'll have to check this for my self tonight. :)-EditHere's what I have.

WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]reference_datum_position= 52.730, 0.000, 2.120empty_weight_CG_position=-48.170, 0.000, 0.000max_number_of_stations=50empty_weight=83000.000empty_weight_roll_MOI=1482117		// was 1411540.000empty_weight_pitch_MOI=1912585.5	// was 1821510.000empty_weight_yaw_MOI=1594819.8		// was 1518876.000empty_weight_coupled_MOI=230.000//station_load.0=1440.0, -48.350, 0.000, 1.050//max_gross_weight=153500.000CG_forward_limit=0.133CG_aft_limit=0.330station_load.1=21600.0, -48.350, 0.000, 1.050station_load.2=0.0, -48.350, 0.000, 1.050station_load.3=0.0, -48.350, 0.000, 1.050

<---Click me

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]reference_datum_position= 52.730, 0.000, 2.120empty_weight_CG_position=-48.170, 0.000, 0.000max_number_of_stations=50empty_weight=83000.000empty_weight_roll_MOI=1482117		// was 1411540.000empty_weight_pitch_MOI=1912585.5	// was 1821510.000empty_weight_yaw_MOI=1594819.8		// was 1518876.000empty_weight_coupled_MOI=230.000//station_load.0=720.0, -48.350, 0.000, 1.050//max_gross_weight=153500.000CG_forward_limit=0.133CG_aft_limit=0.330station_load.1=9000.0, -48.350, 0.000, 1.050station_load.2=0.0, -48.350, 0.000, 1.050station_load.3=0.0, -48.350, 0.000, 1.050

[Guest CRJ_simpilot]

Nope! Look at station.load 0 !! That's where the FC is at! Station_load.2 and 3 are your cargo holds. Add both together for the total number Station 1 is coach. :(

[dave_paige 11]

Nope! Look at station.load 0 !! That's where the FC is at! Station_load.2 and 3 are your cargo holds. Add both together for the total number Station 1 is coach. :(

Yep all of that confirms what I thought. The Load Manager is ignoring the weight of the passengers in the first class cabin.

[Guest CRJ_simpilot]

:( If you compare both pics you will see that station.load 0 changes when I change the FC load in the load manger...

[dave_paige 11]

:( If you compare both pics you will see that station.load 0 changes when I change the FC load in the load manger...

Yes but when using the 'mixed' configurations, and fill some if the first class seats, you'll see that the passenger weight that appears in the Load Manager and the weight that is written into the aircraft config file are NOT the same. The weight written into the aircraft config file is the weight of the coach passengers only.The default per seat weight used by the Load Manager is 180lbs. If you do the math you'll see that even though the Load Manager calculates and displays the correct weight in it's own GUI, it only writes the weight of the coach passengers into the aircraft file.station.0 is the total passenger weightstation.1 is one of the cargo holdsstation.2 is the other cargo hold

[Guest CRJ_simpilot]

There are four stations: 0) This appears to be the first class (Add station 0 with station 1 to show total passenger weight in the load manager. )1) appears to be coach 2) is cargo (Add both these together for total cargo weight displayed in the load manger. 3) is cargoIf you look at the pic, I'm using mixed.Load manager shows total weights...

[dave_paige 11]

There are four stations: 0) This appears to be the first class (Add station 0 with station 1 to show total passenger weight in the load manager. )1) appears to be coach 2) is cargo (Add both these together for total cargo weight displayed in the load manger. 3) is cargoIf you look at the pic, I'm using mixed.Load manager shows total weights...

I looked more carefully and I stand corrected. It was because I hadn't noticed station.0 which is seperated from the others for some reason. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Guest CRJ_simpilot]

:(

[AvA757Pilot 6]

...however, as long as Dave brought it up- I have found another quirk on the fuel page. The figure entered for taxi fuel is assumed to be for taxi out only. Changing that fuel amount only affects the taxi-out weight, no change is made to the takeoff or landing weights. As a practical matter I suppose it makes little difference- once you have landed with your reserve fuel still intact there is no reason some of it cannot be used for the taxi in but for the purist it would seem that any unused taxi out fuel should be factored in for the takeoff and landing weights.

[Guest CRJ_simpilot]

Your confusing the load manager (talked about in this thread) with the fuel planner. lol   The fuel planner will add the fuel to the aircraft when the plane is loaded in the game. The fuel becomes part of the tank's weight, and thus are independent weights for the plane.    When you open the fuel planer, enter the passenger + cargo weight from the load manager. (PAX + Cargo) So... if you first use the load manager, the aircraft config. file will change, and then when you launch the fuel planner those weights will change the plane's fuel load.    Load manager, >>>>  launch FS, then fuel planner.

[AvA757Pilot 6]

Your confusing the load manager (talked about in this thread) with the fuel planner. lol The fuel planner will add the fuel to the aircraft when the plane is loaded in the game. The fuel becomes part of the tank's weight, and thus are independent weights for the plane. When you open the fuel planer, it will read the payload weight from the aircraft config. file. So... if you first use the load manager, the aircraft config. file will change, and then when you launch the fuel planner those weights changed with te load manager will show up. Load manager, >>> launch FS, then fuel planner.

Point well taken. You are correct that I was commenting on the fuel planner (specifically, Ross Carlson's 737NG Fuel Planner) thinking it was part of the load manager and that was just wrong. However, that confusion on my part aside, it still does not change the fact that altering the taxi fuel amount makes no change to the aircraft takeoff or landing weights. So- if I add 8000 lbs of taxi fuel (or any amount- I am only using an extreme and unrealistic example to demonstrate the point) it changes the ramp weight but the system assumes that all of that fuel will be burned on taxi out and does not make a change to the takeoff or landing weights. Even if that fuel is included as part of the tank's weight then it should be added to the gross weight for the entire flight-not just for taxi out. In simple terms- the amount shown as Taxi Fuel should actually be labeled Taxi-Out Fuel by the way it is calculated into the aircraft total weight.As an aside- I always start FS then run the load manager then copy the ZFW weight and enter that on the fuel planner page. That effectively changes the aircraft weights accordingly.

[Guest CRJ_simpilot]

I added an image above.   See, the weight for fuel and the load weights are separate in the sim. When you use the figures provided by the load planner in the fuel planner, then the fuel figures and weights will be adjusted according to your entered amounts for trip distance, taxi fuel, etc.  The thing you have to understand is that the weights will then be projected in the FMC (FMS). So by pressing the LSK in the initialization for the total fuel, zero fuel, etc, you will see the new weights. Complicated stuff, no doubt. Good thing I like math and rarely get headaches. lol :)

[Guest CRJ_simpilot]

Also note, that you should burn your center tanks fuel first, then switch cross feed on and the center fuel pumps off and feed from the wings.