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Guest B1900 Mech

Isn't Capitolism Wonderful! From UAL Mechanic's AMFA We

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Received: 07/09/02 22:02:34 EDTName: X-UALE-Mail: Employer: Location: Message:Dennis,Can you please post the article from the government official who shed light on perks Goodwin received when leaving UAL.If you have any other credible information regarding money UAL has recieved from the government by either aide or tax breaks it would surely be helpful. Also, any info regarding the bad business decisions by UAL After Sept 11 would be helpful too. Keep up the good work! Thank you for the kind words. The info regarding Goodwin appears below. I will attempt to find the other pages you referenced. - TM

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Isn't UAL one of the first Employee Owned Airlines with seats on the Board of Directors and a ton of voting stock?Just to "lure" someone in to run an airline like UAL with it's headaches would need a pretty large "package".Timothy

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You are missing the point! look again at the Salaries of upper mang.!

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What point? So it is big. Mine is big when compared to a clerk.Upper Management are only getting the salary that the board offers and authorizes. That IS market-place economy-capitalism. You want the govenment to dictate what a pay-rate should be?The fault is not "manageent" but the Board of Directors who I think no longer "operate" in the best interest of society, but the stockholders-period. In the up-coming weeks as the CEO's parade in front of Congressional sub-committees ask yourself "Who hired/kept these guys?"Also look at the salaries of very successful CEOs who run a very good ship. I bet ol' Herb down at SWA was very well compensated for creating/guiding/nudging/building/expanding and providing vision.Frankly, I would rather see performance/incentive-based salary for upper-management much like baseball should have. I think that will be the wave of the future.Timothy

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I guess as an airline mechanic with mega responsibility and substandard wages I am a little tired of making these upper management lowlife more richer for their mismanagement, rephrase that, down right thievage of company asset's! This is nothing short of class warfare! I guess you have never heard of the Frank Lorenzo school of Management training. All you general public care about are your cheap ticket's!! Remember, you get what you pay for!!! Remember the people that make these airlines run are people like me who put our sweat and blood into it! It's obvious to anyone with half a brain the people in command don't have any morals other than their own enrichment! So ya wana be an airline employee? Shut down your PIC 767, drop the romantic preconceptions and stop on by!! There is a labor war a brewin!!!!!!!!

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I would like to tell the general public what goes on at the repair stations now being used for anything from a B check to a heavy structural on just about every airline in this country. As a licensed aircraft mechanic going from contract to the next as the previous one would run out, I can tell you a typical example of what goes on. I was assigned to do an eddy current inspection on the Cabin doors on a B737, I found cracks in the door lugs and wrote up the required discrepancy paperwork,I was then repremanded for doing so and was told that the repair station we being charged $10,000 a day for every day over the set inspection and repair period.I knew we did not have the parts on hand and finished out the day doing other tasks. The next day when I reported to the hanger for work the a/c was released!!!!!! It seemed that the people in charge had no moral problem with that! And believe me I have seen worse!We see a growing trend in this cost cutting measure in which the majority of people are unlicensed and inexperenced. Now would you allow your loved ones to fly on this AC? I didnt think so! So back to our beloved upper managment, who also happen to own stock in the dishonest repair station..............End of story? P.S. So tim757 I guess we need to pay our beloved ceo more money because "Just to "lure" someone in to run an airline like UAL with it's headaches would need a pretty large "package".

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I have BEEN through the Frank L's, the Carl's and the Frank's B's operation. I believe I have been in the industry long enough to understand how the game is played, and yes I am a union member. In a previous life before mergers, our nickname was "Cobra Airlines, we'd strike at anything". I have been thru the infamous "A-B wage scales", revised work rules in contracts, mergers, fences, furloughs, extended/expired contracts...been there, done that. I have been called "in" for entering maintenance items into the aircraft log at stations with no on-line maintenance-we ALL have those scars, be it Gate Agent, Line Maint, Pilot-you name it, and the union and brotherhood watches out for each other, (at least in my cases). But you have offered no solution to miss-management. All you have done is say "gee, this system sucks...these are bad managers sucking down a good company etc.". Do you think paying the CEO less will cure the system?UAL dumped their CEO after his infamous "The Sky Is Falling, we will be gone in two years" letter. Granted the Board of Directors who authorized his "package" had to pay-out...but that is the current system in business today. How many refusals did UAL Board get when they were hunting for his replacement....bet that would be an interesting list.It is a shame you weren't working when the airlines were regulated by the CAB, when the government told passengers who they would have to fly to get from point "A" to point "B", EXACTLY how much they would pay for the flight-and the airlines made money-a glamour industry. And we had CEOs who actually RAN the airlines and stayed with their carrier forever. Now it seems the airlines get business graduates because that is what the Board and stockholders demand. But times have changed, it is called de-regulation and it is FAR from perfect. Now to survive we have to be lean, efficient and watch the bottom line much more closely. We didn't have coast-to-coast Southwest type operations, or Midwest Express, Jet Blue, Air Tran, Vanguard, Midway (1 & 2), Braniff (2 & 3)Pan Am 2. And what about the carriers we thought would never die- Eastern, Pan Am 1, Braniff 1 (BTW EVERY Airline Employee should be required to read the book "A Splash of Colors" to learn about how an airline dies....)If there was some "savior" for an airline, who can serve all the masters (Customers/FAA/share-holders/employees/unions/society), balance the needs, maintain or expand the operation without sacrificing anything to meet the needs of the market he/she would be worth many-times his weight in gold.Look at the "re-birth" of COA, read "From Worse to First" and see what it took to turn THAT operation around. What's that guy worth to his Board, Employees.....?BE 1900 Mech, Offer us some solutions, ideas, root-cause analysis, let us learn through the industry dialog (which AVSIM Forum is a very small, but fun part of) what you are seeing and what is being done to correct it. It is easy to point out illness, it is very hard to develop the cure.Timothy(who enjoys PIC767 very much which has nothing to do with anything)

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Just as an aside, I do believe Frank L has been found "unfit" to run an airline.......Timothy

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I know people hate to hear this, but I think the root of all are problems is greed based capitolsm dressed up as a democratic system that is rooted in the political military industral complex. I dont know how, but the earth has to graduate beyond this to a more humanistic way of doing things if we are to survive in happiness. :) P.S. I was a victom of franke boy at EAL, That was a high price to pay for a better running COA. If I stole at that magnitude, I would probaly be in a max-security prison rather than the club-fed frank didnt even get. Later, got to go make the donuts!

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Excellent post and insight Timothy.I also recommend "A Splash of Colors" - Nance's view of 82' is an eye-opener.Overall, this is an interesting thread. Interestingly, whenever I see threads like this I am again reminded about the difference between the military and the civilian maintenance philosophy (or should I say cost philosophy). When I put a red "X" in military log it meant something - the plane would not fly again until the condition was corrected...period. A write-up in a civilian log (similar circumstances and problem), could raise many an eyebrow and question the crew's judgement with "are you sure or "could it wait" questions. Finally, as to the PIC767 - I am lost without Loran or Loring :)P.S. Southern Maryland skies were beautiful this Friday and Saturday and the Cessna found lots of clean air and a few good meals - not in-flght BTW. P.S. Timothy. (In response to another post/thread), Maggie from N.E. could have been my sister - we had much in common. :)See ya,Kathy.Born to Fly.My Dad, Me, My Son.____________________http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d32decc3494b57c.jpg

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KP-Of course that red "X" on the dsah-1 was in peace time. I have heard horror stories "There I was...." of guys going up north with all sorts of write-ups.In the good-old days I remember coming out to the ol' 727 and maybe one CB was collared. Now we got tags and tickets in the log-book. One thing about the steam guage planes, you KNEW what was affected when something was inop. Now, on the electric jets the MELs have all sorts of listings and a mile long. It isn't the maintenance cews doing, it's the way the system has matured. The day will come when to compete there will be a meeting of the minds.One of the biggest oxymorons is the FAA's mandate/charter/mission to promote and regulate the aviation industry at the same time. I think if I had to work in an agency to promote, yet regulate I'd go a little nuts myself. I think this is what mech 1900 was saying when he was talking about repair stations and oversite. Sometimes the inmates are running the asylum depending what hat they are wearing.KP-Land O'ORD is density altitude limited, hot, humid-just like I remember DelMarVa when I lived there. Think I'll keep the BT in the hanger Timothy(Thought they shut down LORAN?)

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